The Watchtower: Sincere Old Men or Deliberate Deceivers?

by metatron 75 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  LittleToe

  Finding out the truth about the Trinity Brochure (regardless of the subject matter) was the last straw for me, on this topic. Duplicitous at best...
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  Midget-Sasquatch

  I made the mistake a long time ago of thinking that all the WTS "heavies" were sincere but deluded. Now I realize that all of them are sincere about wanting to keep the entity known as the Org up and running. Why they feel that way varies, from the sad but troubling to the unethical and sickening.

  A few of them may very well be delusional, and have tied up grandiose plans of salvation and glorification along with that entity. We know though, that there are others that have known the dirt for quite a while but decided to keep it under wraps. To me, it looks like they've only made changes when there was some threat to the "health" of the entity (numbers and $$$$$). They are undoubtedly deceitful, and they've been running the show for a very long time.
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  logansrun

  Just a thought, but can't someone be a mean, uptight and haughty person and at the same time still be sincere? I mean, especially if you sincerely believed that you were appointed by God to head his One True Organization on earth? Seems to me that the GB's sincerity only makes their haughtiness and conservativism worse.

  B.
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  roybatty

  I mean, especially if you sincerely believed that you were appointed by God to head his One True Organization on earth?

  But do they REALLY believe that any longer? They've personally witnessed prediction after prediction not come true. They've seen their core beliefs (like blood and neutrality) contrantly having to be changed. Beliefs and predictions they personally molded and shaped under the "direction from Jehovah." C'mon, even they have to start to wonder.

  For the few years that I was an elder, I knew that what I was teaching was crap. I gave public talks on subjects that I no longer believed in. That was deceitful. I couldn't take it any longer and decided to exit stage left. I feel that most of the GB members are in the same boat but do not have any means to exit the organization or they know it's a bunch or crap but love the power. For the first group, the twisted quote "where will we go?" truly applies to them. Because of this I believe they go with the flow, much the same way a member of organized crime who has a change of heart doesn't leave out of fear of being wacked. Look how Ray was made an "example" of.
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  Stradman

  Exhibit A

   
  		Back in July, 2004 I met a Jehovah's Witness and she gave me a copy of the Watchtower (July 1, 2004) where Dr. Stott (johnstott.org) candid remarks were quoted. As usual, they do not give you information on the source, because they have the tendency to take quotes out of context. 

   
  		The words quoted on paragraph 5, page 15, are ? Our failure to obey the 
  		implications of this command [evangelization] is the greatest weakness of evangelical Christians in the field of evangelism today.? and a few other comments along those lines. Their point is to exalt their own door-to-door evangelism activity.

   
  		I wanted to have access to the complete article, book, etc. in order to get the whole story. I do not trust them!

   
  		Upon contacting John Stott?s ministry I got this answer:

   
  		Greetings from John Stott Ministries!

   
  		Thank you for your inquiry of John Stott. While still thriving at the age of 83, John Stott finds that he no longer has the energy of mind and body to respond to all the questions and requests which he continues to receive. We trust that you can understand this situation.

  We do not publish John Stott books at this ministry, but you may contact the publisher InterVarsity Press directly with your question.

   
  		Blessings in Christ,

  John Stott Ministries

   __________________________________________________________

  Not giving up, I found this information at this Web Site:

  http://www.christianity.co.nz/church11.htm

   
  		At the World Congress on Evangelism in Berlin in 1966, John Stott stated, in a Bible Study on John's version of the Great Commission:

  By his birth, by his life and his death, God's Son identified himself with us. He did not stay apart from us or aloof from us. He made himself one with us...Now he says to us "As the Father sent me into the world, so send I you." I personally believe that our failure to obey the implications of this command is the greatest weakness of evangelical Christians in the field of

  evangelism today.

   
  		_________________________________

  So, in 2004 they quote something said in 1966, 38 years ago as the condition of "Christendom" today. They are truly misleading. I wish I could find the JW girl again just to bring her

  up-to-date with my findings.

  Stradman
• 

  proplog2

  Willyloman has it right. It is an organization cut loose from its moorings. It is in the same spot that the early Christian church was in at the age of 120. Christ didn't come back so instead of explaining things they had to start "explaining away" a lot of stuff.

  The way Metatron phrases his point it seems as if he is looking for someone to blame. In reality it doesn't matter whether they are sincere old men or deliberate deceivers. What matters is the result. As humans we "all" are very good at deception. Sincerity = self-deception. The objective is to make sure the patterns in our head match something out there in the real world.

  I wouldn't trade my experience of being deceived by the Watchtower for anything - even wealth and health. It has taught me the need to keep challenging everything. I despise settling into a comfortable mode of thought. I will keep re-examining my beliefs until my mind fades into senility or death.

  By the way. Are the essays on the Commentary Press web page Ray Franz's? Does he really think evolution is false? And does he think that the essay on evolution is credible? Is he a sincere old man? I think so. Does he have all the dots connected yet? Probably not. I just hope I never end up like that.
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  freedom96

  I think there are some who are sincere, but they just really don't have a clue. There are some out there who are power hungry, but even with that being the case, might believe it to be the truth.
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  Sunspot

  ** Just a thought, but can't someone be a mean, uptight and haughty person and at the same time still be sincere? I mean, especially if you sincerely believed that you were appointed by God to head his One True Organization on earth? Seems to me that the GB's sincerity only makes their haughtiness and conservativism worse.

  B.

  With all due respect, the probability of the entire GB being deluded that they are what they've claimed to be----makes their level of integrity under scrutiny, to say the least.

  This flies in the face of logic and truth, especially in light of all the failed prophecies, etc, that have been previously mentioned. I tend to believe that any haughtiness they exhibit can only stem from self-delusion that no real facts can support.

  Annie
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  LittleToe

  Neo:Can you edit your post, please, as it's screwing up the formatting of this page with that long line of dots.
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  cyber-sista

  there's one common trait that they all share: whether sincere old men or

  deliberate deceivers, they thoroughly idolize the Watchtower organization and

  there is nothing they wouldn't do to protect it or to advance its interests

  I agree Mark--this seems to be the crux of it and this carries on throughout the "faithful" members of this Org, as they are taught that having faith in God means being faithful to his "earthy Organization." (worshipping the WT) I also believe as many quoted above that these old men are insane with power--or who are just plain old crazy and delusional.

  cybs