The Watchtower: Sincere Old Men or Deliberate Deceivers?

by metatron 75 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • one

    they are trying, they are trying to to fix things with new light

    remember what Ray said in CoC... more than two (2) decades ago three (3) GB members officially proposed ( to the twelve (?) members gb board) to change 1914 for 1957 as the year when the SIGN became visible.

    THAT was the only recommendation after being assigned to come up with an alternative or solution to the 1914 and 1975 fiasco

    The SIGN being space "vehicles" staring to appear during 1957 with the first satellite (*sputnik"?), the proposal was rejected (silly?)

    So you see they are sincere, only problem is they haven't come up with a good number and better signs, after being back on the drawing board for decades.

    During the mean time here is their reply to any complaint "wait on J, ""don't be presumptuous", those who "run ahead" are showing who they really are

    Are they missing missing freddy?..., but Freddy (th oracle) was the one needing some correction, new light.. .

  • metatron

    The existence of the Internet as an unfettered source of information plays a large part in this matter. You go thru decades

    of your life "in the truth" and occasionally bump into "apostate literature". It makes you wonder briefly but you tell yourself

    that they probably have their facts screwed up and forget about it.

    Suddenly the internet bursts on the scene. The facts are there in plain sight, easily referenced and starkly exposed for anyone

    to investigate. Almost at once, a small religious subculture that flourished on secrecy - and being ignored - stands with everyone

    of its unique doctrines soundly disproved. What does the Watchtower do? How do they react?

    Do they mount a thorough going defense? Do they issue deep apologias? Do they take these attacks apart in Questions

    From Readers? Print a new detailed explanation on blood? the Gentile times? "Dumb Up" instead of "Dumb Down" ?

    If they are sincere, they do the above

    but if they are deliberate cynics, they do nothing - except pressure their flock to avoid the internet.

    Their silence is screaming - to anyone who will listen - that no such defense is possible - and they know it.

    That's what makes this so different from the days of Russell and the Judge.


  • FairMind

    Believe it or not the Bible actually speaks of men who not only would lie but also would believe their own lies.

    2 nd Thessalonians 2:11,12 – “So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie. In order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Verse 9 links those spoken of in the above quoted verses to the presence of the lawless one and to Satan (interesting huh?).


  • one


    If they are sincere, they do the above

    "blind" can not guide.

    It must be a trip feeling "choosen".

    so they find support in jesus words and experience, Jesus was accused of doing this and that, that he even proposed to rebuild the temple in three (3) days if destroyed, no pearls to swine,

    after all, most if not all traditional anti jw literature is very antagonic, instead of presenting just facts.

    It is about saving face, about my religion, my country, my state, my city, my neigborhood, my family RIGHT OR WRONG, why should i give ammunitions to the enemy.

    Leaders and most citizens will alwasy find that what their country have done was justified and there is no need for apologies.

    Religion and emotions are hard to deal with.

  • steve2

    This is one of the most interesting threads I've yet read. Thank you metatron.

    Room 215 - yours is a persuasive view, one I hadn't thought of before. I've scrolled through a few times and want to acknowledge the views of itsallgoodnow, ko38, jgnat, Doubtfully Yours, Alan F, willyloman and others whose posts have kept me tuned in.

    If I can add my view (which I acknowledge is not unique): It is people who actually believe that something is the truth - and who have grandiose views about their own special role - who have the largest capacity to behave and speak in deceitful ways; the end justifies the means. Therefore, someone can be both sincere in his religious beliefs and a deliberate deceiver.

    Remember the glee with which JWs - including possibly ourselves when we were JWs- would quote Jesus's words when they attempted to defend their religion: "Be as cunning as serpents but innocent as doves" .

    The Watchtower Society has for decades been deeply into impression management. Among other things, that means that it's not what's actually happening that is important, but the sanitised impression of what is happening. Winston Smith is well aware of this!

    The Watchtower Society constantly holds up its rank and file as shining examples of fine preachers of the good news and, at the same time, takes cheap critical shots at the rank and file who belong to other religions. How dare the Watchtower Society do this when their own statistics show that increasing numbers of JWs are slowing down in the preaching work and even becoming inactive. Ah, but for them to do anything differently would imply they had modified their view of their own role in the outworking of Bibilical prophecy.

    No wonder the GB can hold two almost opposing ideas; namely, 1) the urgent message about the end coming real soon and 2)the need to more fully establish the publishing and printing organisation with a view to carrying out the preaching work in the years to come!


  • one

    as i mentioned before "Religion and emotions are hard to deal with" no matter on what side of the controversy a person is located.

    "Sincere Old Men or Deliberate Deceivers?"

    would it be a deper question to ask

    do they have an open mind?

    do they have what it takes to analyse the issues?

    unless we know them very well it is hard to tell.

    who knows.. some may be find themselves with no options, just keep quite or leave at old age.

    Any jw with a reasonable mind, after reaching the top or near the top, must conclude it is all BS

    BUT this "wait on jehovah" mind set is hard to disregard, the bible itself suport it.. Even Satan was loose up in heaven and now on earth "waiting" for J.

  • Earnest

    Could the same question have been asked of the leaders of first-century Christianity post-70 AD ? And similar answers be given ?

  • one

    were doctrines devised to deceive?

  • metatron

    Certainly, anyone could ask any question they wish, in any era. However, Christians in the

    first century were far too diverse to ever think of them as members of a rigid "organization".

    Men like Paul LED BY EXAMPLE - and not by enforced 'authority' as any fair reading of

    his letters to the Corinthians shows. There was no "Governing Body" - as Fred Franz

    ( Yes, FRED Franz!) showed when he argued against the concept.

    Early Christians emphasized personal faith and individual "gifts of the spirit". As such,

    they had little interest in crafting deceptions to maintain a corporate structure - as blatant

    an anachronism as you'll ever find!


  • Earnest
    Early Christians emphasized personal faith and individual "gifts of the spirit". As such, they had little interest in crafting deceptions to maintain a corporate structure - as blatant an anachronism as you'll ever find!

    True. But many early Christians believed Christ was going to return in their lifetime. When he did not, even after the temple had been destroyed, did their caveats that he would come as a thief in the night not include a bit of (self) deception ? My point is that all eschatological groups including the early Christians employ some form of deception when their expectations fail. Self-deception can still be sincere.


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