hello im new and I need your help

by PaNiCAtTaCk 109 Replies latest members private

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  jgnat

  Hi, PanicAttack. I am a regular Christian, never a JW, married to one. I have been on this board for a while now, and I am getting used to the stages of grief that exiting witnesses go through. You are in the throes of grief right now.

  In my opinion, it is a completely different thing to know what is wrong, than from knowing what is right for your life.

  You have found out that the "truth" you were hanging on to is a bit of rubber raft in rough seas. You don't know what is sure any more. I am afraid courageous Christianity takes a bit more work than several years' of study from a set of books. It means personal exploration and study. I encourage you to explore your gut a bit, and write down what you know is true and right. Do more reading and research, not just on the WTS, but on philosophy and Christianity generally. Even reading the bible straight without commentary can be comforting. Try the Psalms, Matthew, Hebrews.

  I am a bit worried that you are mixing up what is true and right for you (the primary person you are responsible for), and everybody else in your life. Abusive partners and abusive organizations control their members through guilt, by making them responsible for others who should be responsible for themselves.

  I feel that I am dragging her down because shes not strong enough to be zealous on her own.

  Everyone has to stand on their own faith. Your wife must find her own way, too. Perhaps the organization has never been as important to her as it has been for you. You might find some ideas from Amazing1914's story. He started doing personal bible studies with his family (something the organization recommends), encouraging his family to think "outside the box". He first introduced his family to "independent thinking", allowing them to gradually conclude that they weren't all that interested in attending the Kingdom Hall either.
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  Alwayshere

  Pani, Supreme one is so right about that organization. They have prophesied in God's name and also in Jesus' name. The Awake on the inside page showing the purpose of the magizine says"Most important this magizine builds confidence in the "Creator's promise" of a peacefull and secure new world BEFORE the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away"March,1988 untill Oct.1995 also the May1,1982 page15 says "Jesus assures us the 1914 generation will not pass away." what the Society does is call these '"mistakes"but there is a difference in mistakes and false prophesying.We are all imperfect so we make mistakes but God says anyone saying something in his name and if it didn't come to pass that is a false prophet and we don't have to be afraid of him. God also says the penalty is DEATH for false prophets. Read Deuteronomy18:20-22.It's easy to claim JW are the truth but what do the facts show? They said the end would come in 1914,1918. 1925 1975 and other times. How could an Organization who claims to be God's channel be wrong so many times? I have been out about a year and not DF, not that I would care but would lose my family, so I just quit going.The Elders have been out and have called a few times. I finially told them I wasn't bothering anyone and I didn't want to be bothered.If I wanted to talk to them I would call them. Haven't heard from them since. And my Family speaks to me but thats about all but that is better than nothing.When you are Baptized you belong to that organization and you can not disagree with them or you will be labeled an Apostate.They do not allow you to think for yourself. They say "independent thinking is manifested by questioning the organization".[Watchtower 1/15/83].Hoping things go well with you.
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  PaNiCAtTaCk

  Just another thought I wanted to get out. I cant sit through a meeting now without nitpicking the things that I hear. All the comments of the friends sound robotic and rehearsed over and over again. The other day I was watching old home movies of my cousins first number 4 talk around 1987 or so. Guess what the yearly theme was. "Keep on the Watch" Just the other day a sister in the hall tied the yearly theme "keep on the watch" With how the society knows were closer than ever. I just hear these things and cringe. It seems like a vicious cycle that just keeps going generation after generation. Its the things like this that bother me so much and after researching our history its been taking place for over 100 years. I still feel that we are in the last days though.
  But I also realize the last days could mean 200 more years. When you take into consideration how long the earth has been around 200 years isnt long. I am bothered by all the comparisons of our time with Noahs day.
  True their are some comparisons that can be made. Conditions of the world ect. But then they start talking dates again making the point that it took 100+ years for the flood to come and its been 70+ years since Christ started ruling invisibly. Putting the thought in the brothers minds that maybe 2034 or so it would be appropriate for Jah to step in. I just see a vicious cycle repeating itself and it bothers me while everone else is raising their hands smiling and commenting. More later
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  bebu

  ((((Panic))))

  Here's a link to Amazing1914's story, which jgnat mentioned.

  http://www.freeminds.org/psych/exithelp.htm

  May I suggest that you make it quite clear to your wife that it is because of integrity, and a devotion to the truth at all costs, and that you know that Jehovah wants you to follow integrity and truth, that you have seen these questions and grapple with them.

  You might ask her at what point she would know IF the WTS were not God's channel... and what would she do if she such point as she imagines were proven true? It is hard for JWs to think hypothetically about the WT like that, but it is a gentler way sometimes.

  Please take care... I do wish you and your wife and child all the very best!

  bebu
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  Cicatrix

  Welcome to the board, Panic,
  
  I found the letter you recieved to be very interesting, especially the following quote:
  
  "IT IS ALSO A MATTER OF LOYALTY TO JEHOVAH TO STICK CLOSE TO HIS ORGANIZATION ESPECIALLY IN THESE TROUBLED TIMES."
  
  The emphasis that is placed on loyalty to the organisation equaling loyalty to Jehovah is definitely much different than what Charles T. Russell taught. He said:
  
  "Beware of "organisation". It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God's Word today, and so continue growing in grace and knowledge and love day by day."
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  PaNiCAtTaCk

  thanks I will read it.
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  No Apologies

  
  Hi Panic,

  I just wanted to add my two cents to the discussion. Like many others here, I was in a position very similar to yours a little over a year ago. It can be stressful, but you will get through it. Where you end up is completely up to you. I just wanted to add one thought to a statement you made:

  I was at the presiding overseers house eating with my family after the meeting on Sunday having a wonderful time. But at the same time I was hurting knowing that I would lose these people as friends If I ever left the truth.

  What you have to realize is, if these people refuse to associate with you simply because you decide you have to follow your conscience... then they were never really your friends at all.....

  No Apologies
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  Pole

  Hi Panic.
  
  One thing that should comfort you on your way out is that at the end of this road there's FREEDOM.
  
  Spiritual, intelectual, religious and personal freedom.
  
  Best,
  
  Pole
• 

  redhotchilipepper

  Hi Panikattack: When I read the email from your so called MS friend. He didn't sound like a friend. Not even a close aquaintance. It was very cold, to me. The whole thing started making my depression come back. Seriously. It was dreary. I felt it all over again. The doom and gloom. The JW slave lingo. I could barely finish reading it. Then I read the email from Ray: it was quite the opposite. He was very interested in you. A man that he has never met. Do you see the distinction? It's very sad, really. I have only left the ORG. in the past maybe 6 months. I have friends that I have known for 5 and 10 years. I haven't even received a phone call from them. I made sure that word got around that I was leaving. It's not hard with the JW's. They are the Gossip central Cult. One person knows and they all know! I feel very hurt and sad. I feel angry. I'm cleaning my house like I'm in the Army or something. I'm so hurt! That's the way they are. My Worldly friends, so to speak, would never do that to me. Trust me, my friend, it's hard, it hurts, alot, but you are better of without them. That MS is trying to set you up, so watch your back. Take care. We're here for you, anytime. This is where your true friends are. The APOSTATE SITE that you were never supposed to frequent. We're the true blue ones! Not the so called Christian JW'S! Ray Franz is a true Christian!!!! Redhot!
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  XQsThaiPoes

  PA

  I know I am a minority on the form and maybe in JWdom. I am a selfconfident JW that does not take much stock in the actions of JWs or the watchtower. In all reality It depends on your concept or God and morallity. If the JWs, catholics, or hindu's are wrong it is God's responsibility for not making a cogent mauscript. The bible and other holy books have too many flaws. Hence the countless faiths that spring up around them. A perfect competent God should write a perfect competent book.

  On to JWs. I like the JW faith. It is too feeble to be taken seriously, and the endless predictable responses makes it easy to worm around in. The watchtower is a publishing company and realestate developer. They are superb at doing those two things, and are quite impressive at it. Schoolarly they admit in several articles they are not to be considered canon nor criticaly. Meaning by their own admission their text are simple serials editorials, and pop journalism to be scaned and canned like a Teen People, or USA today.

  As for the "slave" the JWs are 100% right. Considering only less than1% of JWs are Christians, and the rest are bystanding wellwishing gentiles waiting for their purgatory called the Paradise earth. Considering purgatory was always a bland dismal place the JWs did it some good turning it into a corona beer commerical. THe only problem is that over 1/3 of the globe are "slave class". Since the watchtower by its own definition has "become babylon the great" (it is odd to write a test you can't pass) they can't argue any way to trump the rest of christiandom as being the only "faithful" slave.

  Also there is a noted schism in the watchtower proper and the JW church. It is growning wider as we speak.

  Note the watchtower has invented a system to temp people to "leave" the truth. It is a tried and true system used by everyone from Stalin to K-mart. To stimulate productivity purging a group of members is the fastest way to gain results. So the JW eagerness to "become apostate" or "get disfellowshiped" is a simple ruse to make the rest of JWs work more. They dangle paradise on one stick and an EXIT sign on another. In reality there is no "leaving" because Jehovah's witnesses is not a place. It is a belief. Don't let others mess with your beliefs especialy if it is a fuzzy concept like religion. THe whole "get out of her you people" is a marketing device. The preaching work is to get fresh people to fill the empty seats If the fervor stopped the JW Chruch would implode in 20 years. Due to many factors external restraints are hindering growth so they will have to change one day.

  You can live a perfectly good life as a JW. Kick back go into feild service when you feel inspired not guilty. Once you boil the marketing from the bones JWs is a nice religion. If you liked it before why change now? Just pride your self at being one of the few informed JWs at the hall. AND STOP FEELING GUILTY YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG! The catholic church did not colapse when people found out the earth went around the sun. JWs won't collapse when people realize there is no "organization","world wide preaching work", or "end of this system of things" lurking in the shadows no more than any other tragedy in the circle of life.