hello im new and I need your help

by PaNiCAtTaCk 109 Replies latest members private

• 

  candidlynuts

  There is no question, then, as to which holds primacy with the Witnesses, the Bible or the ?organization.? They are subjected to a steady flow of indoctrination which stresses that they cannot hope to gain salvation unless they are associated with, and submissive to, ?God?s organization,? that is, the organization of Jehovah?s Witnesses. Thus the ?organization? becomes, to all intents and purposes, a mediator between humans and God and Christ--contrary to the Scriptural teaching that there is but one Mediator. (1 Timothy 2:5) They thereby infringe on Jesus? position as ?the way, the truth and the life.? (John 14:6) More than all the errors of an interpretative nature or of a predictive or chronological nature, it is this self-assuming, immodest spirit that is perhaps most disturbing. It is by this means that persons eventually are willing to give up their right to think for themselves and become mere accepters of what is taught.

  this quote from Ray in the email.. ..instead of big angry placards.. we should print this out and leave it in peoples cars at the kh!
• 

  Incense_and_Peppermints

  I feel that hes trying to bait me to say something increminating so I always respond positive in a typical JW way always avoiding anything that may sound apostate.

  of course you realize just being here and posting your letters is "incriminating"... if they happen to look at these boards it won't be difficult to identify you. no one can tell you what to do. only you can decide the path you will take. i felt like i was eavesdropping reading your emails, but at the same time i felt your anguish, and your wife's confusion and pain too. i'm so sorry for what you are going through. pray, reflect, meditate and talk to your wife. this is a very private struggle you're going through and something so intimate should be shared by the two of you. frankly, when reading that MS's email i felt absolutely nothing coming from him at all... but maybe i'm wrong.

  anyway for some reason i'm thinking of this scene from "Braveheart", where the villagers are deciding if they want to fight or go back home:

  William Wallace:	I am William Wallace. And, I see a whole army of my country men, here in defiance of tyranny. You've come to fight as freemen, and freemen you are. What will you do with that freedom?! Will you fight?
  Man:	No . . . we will run . . . and we will live.
  William Wallace:	Aye. Fight and you may die. Run and you'll live, at least a while. And, dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance -- just one chance -- to come back here and tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take -- our freedom!
• 

  SixofNine

  *grabs pitchfork*
• 

  Incense_and_Peppermints

  *grabs pitchfork*

  atta baby! lol
• 

  Aude_Sapere

  Wow.

  What a post. And an interesting thread. I can't wait for more responses here.

  My initial thoughts on the email from the MS was extreme lack of intimacy. Some familiarity was there but I didn't feel any deep bond. Just words typed by rote; like copied from a Watchtower article or something.

  Exact OPPOSITE response when reading the email from Mr Franz ( and he used to actually WRITE them!! ironic, i think!!). I felt ummm sincerity. Compassion. Humanity.

  I have tears in my eyes from this...

  Personally, raised in the truth, I have to take a stand for what I believe is right.

  When the time came that I did not agree what was preached from the platform and practiced by the members, I could no longer participate or associate with those people. I could not believe that I was even considering leaving Jehovah's organization but in my own Crisis of Conscience inately knew that I needed to distance myself.

  I remember walking out of the hall, my brain numb. I knew I was done. I didn't know where I was going but I knew I would not be back in the Kingdom Hall any time soon. My prayer to Jehovah was very simple. Jehovah - you know my heart. You know this pains me. I don't want to leave but I cannot stay. You know more than I can express. You know even more than I do why I cannot be here.

  My own JW Bible-trained conscience told me what was right. I had not been in contact with apostates. Never read apostate literature. 17 YEARS later, I found this sight. only about 2weeks ago

  My trust in Jehovah's ability to read my heart and understand me more than I understood myself allowed me to take the time I needed to make decisions regarding what actions and stands I would make. In so many ways, my very life and the lives of the children in my care depended on it.

  I think my best suggestion is: Pray to Jehovah - only in sincerity. Search for truth.
• 

  PaNiCAtTaCk

  To whomever asked yes, Ive read both Crisis of Conscience and IN search of Christian freedom. Both books made alot of sence and thats what hurts so much. As I try and struggle to hang on to the truth Im haunted by the logical reasoning of both books. I was always told such apostate readings were twisted reasoning and poison from Satan. What I read from Ray Franz books was complete opposite of that. But then should I leave
  one man made organization just to follow another mans reasoning. I know in the end I have to make my own decision and be held responsible for it whatever it may be. I want the JW's to be the truth so bad. But I'm afraid I will never be able to view it in that way again. When I found flaw with the society it raised questions about all the beliefs Im accustomed to. I was at the presiding overseers house eating with my family after the meeting on Sunday having a wonderful time. But at the same time I was hurting knowing that
  I would lose these people as friends If I ever left the truth. I was hurting knowing they would all think I was influenced by Satan and led astray. The Presiding Overseer has always been like a father to me. Until my next post.
  Please keep the responses coming.
  
  I was concerned about anyone finding my post so I posted in the private area thinking that would be safe.
• 

  Incense_and_Peppermints

  I was concerned about anyone finding my post so I posted in the private area thinking that would be safe.

  just to be on the safe side, you might wanna edit that out. unlike jehovah's witness message boards that require song numbers, KH locations, etc. to even register, anyone can get in here and post.

  stay strong! i wish you all the best.
• 

  NewLight2

  "I was concerned about anyone finding my post so I posted in the private area thinking that would be safe."
  
  To see this post, one must be registered - but remember, anyone CAN regester.
  
  To edit a post:
  
  Click on the title of your post - the one just above the one you want to edit - when the next screen appears - in the upper right top you will see the word 'edit' click on that. That will bring back your orig posting box. All you have to do is erase what you do not want and push the 'post' button again.
  
  Are you putting a 'check mark' in this little box just above the posting bar? 'Automatic Cr/Lf'
  
  That is how you make paragraphs appear in your text.
• 

  PaNiCAtTaCk

  thanks for all the advice.
• 

  eljefe

  I want the JW's to be the truth so bad.
  
  I would spend some time meditating on why you want JW's to be the truth. Therein lies the crux of your problem. You have been told many times about the paradise both spiritual and physical. The verdict is still out on the the physical paradise, but there is absolutely no spiritual paradise in JW's. It is quite the opposite.
  
  I was at the presiding overseers house eating with my family after the meeting on Sunday having a wonderful time. But at the same time I was hurting knowing that I would lose these people as friends If I ever left the truth. I was hurting knowing they would all think I was influenced by Satan and led astray. The Presiding Overseer has always been like a father to me. Until my next post.
  Please keep the responses coming.
  
  I started fading about 1 year ago. About 6 months before that I cooked dinner for one of the Governing Body. Two months after that, I spent the weekend with the CO and his wife at his apartment. Up to the present time, I have only been visited once by a JW. In other words, I went from having a lot of "friends" to having none. The only thing that changed was not going to meetings anymore. I didn't change. My title changed. My friends are only my friends because I was a JW. My family was only my family because I was a JW.
  
  If I had it all to do over again, I would do the same thing. JW's exert way too much influence on people's lives. There is nothing in the Bible that say to do that.