My Mother's Being Announced in November As OFF The Pioneer List

by minimus 132 Replies latest jw friends

  • LittleToe

    This is just desperately wicked!

    I'm not confident of the details (as it's been so long) but I understood that if you were 70+ and had been pioneering for ten or more years you were put on the Permanent Pioneer list, where it didn't matter how few you put in as you were still counted as a Pioneer.

    To take away something that is so precious to someone (in the twilight of their years) is beyond mean and cruel, it's just barbaric!

  • minimus

    There really was no reason given. They know she is very sickly. They simply told her it would be best for her to stop pioneering and that it would be announced in November.....Simple as that! But remember---for the previous 25 minutes it was all about me and my family. I talked to my mother today. She asked me to pick up some prescriptions for her and to bring her a treat because she was feeling depressed. She mentioned that she is praying to Jehovah not to feel bitter. She is still stunned by the way things were done in such a cold quick way.

  • Schizm


    Please don't mistakenly think that I'm attempting to lay a guilt trip on ya by what I'm about to say. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this mystery, if possible.

    You said:

    But remember---for the previous 25 minutes it was all about me and my family.

    This makes me wonder if possibly you've revealed on this forum something your mother might have said that the elders might have picked up on, something that she said that they would frown on. Have you related anything about her beginning to have doubts about anything? I can't say that I remember for sure. Anyway, I think it's possible that if you've given sufficient details about you and your mother here on this forum that non-members who spy on this site may be able to connect the dots.

    Just a guess, that's all.


  • Happy Guy :)
    Happy Guy :)

    Assuming for a moment that his mother has said something which Minimus has relayed second hand to us here in the forum, does a decision like this not require two witnesses to hear these words spoken directly from his mother's mouth? I recognize that this is not a case of Disfellowshipping or Disassociation but in the way it has been described here it sounds almost like a Public Re-Prooving which would make it a punitive action nevertheless.

    I can't help but wonder though, Minimus, is it possible that you (and all of us for that matter) are jumping the gun here? You mentioned that she was grilled for a time on her family and their JW frowned-upon ways, perhaps they wished to see where she stood? You also mentioned that they acknowledged she has reached a "milestone" in the JWs. Reaching a milestone in an organization is usually something which is celebrated and not penalized (yes I realize we are talking about the borg). Is it at all possible when they publicly announce that she is no longer a pioneer that they have something else equally meaningful (or more meaningful for that matter) in store for her which recognizes her contributions? After all she is almost 80 and ill. I know that the borg have all too often been cruel and insensitive but is it at all possible that they may have something more Christian-like in mind for her?

  • Narkissos

    How unsensitive.

    This reminds me of two cases when I was df'd (back in 1986):

    (1) My fellow special pioneer was df'd a few days before me. The very day this happened, he called his mother on the phone. She was a very understanding person, about 60 years old, who couldn't read or write, and a devout JW believer, auxiliary pioneering several months a year. He did not tell her he was df'd, but she felt there was something wrong with him and took the first train to Paris (she lived over 500 kms away). When she eventually realized what had happened, she chose to stay with us, even praying with us, as she felt this was completely unfair and trusted that "Jehovah knew better". When we had to leave our Parisian flat (lent by a JW couple) a few weeks later, she offered us to stay for a month at her home while she was on vacation on her native island of Madeira (so she was not with us when we were there). Well, some time later the elders of her cong. summonned her about what she had done for us, and she was not accepted as an aux. pioneer for several years. A couple of years later she attended her son's wedding in a Baptist Church, and was very friendly to me on this occasion. Afaik she is still a JW, pioneering from time to time. She was one of the best persons I was ever privileged to meet.

    (2) In our congregation there was a third special pioneer, a 40 y.o. lady. The three of us used to read the NT together every day and she began questioning many things in the WT teaching. In fact she unwittingly triggered the process of our df'ment by her questions. After we were df'd she couldn't shun us, and we met several times. But she was very troubled and felt the need to confess that to the elders. Well, as a result, and although she eventually stopped seeing us at my suggestion, she also lost her "privilege" for some time, even though she needed her monthly allowance for a living.

    The WT sucks.

  • frenchbabyface

    Wow 40 years !!! ... Pionneering A ++++ !!! and still that much on the field in being infirm ... Well they should put her on the HONORABLE Pionner Liste !!!

    ... Sure it have nothing to do with what she is able to do or not cause she had the MENTAL power to obviouly - and isn't God providing ? ... and of course It might be about you and you sister for real : Why do you go pionneering if you can handle your own childs (sneaky way to make her feel bad about something she is not responsible) ... Well actually your mother will indeed get on the lower side little by little but if she can (a little time off feeling very bad about her supposed responsabilities and use her abilities to get 2 young Adults back (with/or their familly) it means more for the Organisation ... who cares how she feels about it ... who cares that it get her depressed to be depreciate that way ...(who cares if she's on the list or not also is God that picky ?)

    Well the reason why I feel for her is that it seems that she's really faithfull ... And that she feels bad about it and get depressed by now. But well ... you and your familly (grand children and all) can hug her, love her, have much more time with her ... you'll be able to show her the best part of the world ... it's not too late and she might give you 20 and more years loving arms and kisses in return, and yeah it might turn into a real blessing for the whole familly (I hope and wish ... cause she deserve it)

  • frenchbabyface

    Wow Narkissos you mean that's pure retaliation !!! (now on an almost 80 years woman) They have to know to get there that those people are more than truly faithfull, nice and need to there JW familly !!! Bastards !!!

  • candidlynuts

    why should she be judged by what an ADULT child of hers does? ( i know..makes as much sense as anything the elders do)

    i just really feel badly for her and she is in my prayers.

  • toreador

    We had a couple of anointed people, actually they were husband and wife, who were on the permanent pioneer list. I could never figure out how that worked. I empathize with your mother minimus, nothing surprises me much anymore with the WTS.

  • LittleToe

    Actually, rethinking it., it might have been 60yrs old and ten consecutive years fulltime service (Bethel included).

    Regardless, the CO sounds like a real sh*t-hearted Society man, out to exact nothing but hurt.

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