by El blanko 207 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Robyn
I thought of what you describe...it seems so hit and miss....maybe it's because were conditioned not to listen to our inner voice.
Especially as JW's we were conditioned that the inner voice was invariably going to lead us astray, we were to stifle our inner voice and listen to the voice of the GB on all matters.
...it seems so hit and miss....maybe it's because were conditioned not to listen to our inner voice.Especially as JW's we were conditioned that the inner voice was invariably going to lead us astray, we were to stifle our inner voice and listen to the voice of the GB on all matters.
Shotgun,
I agree with your statement.
I still fight my JW conditioning. I doubt that I will ever be free of it.
I do find it hard to comprehend why a God/Spirit would provide strength for el blanko to deliver a letter to an elder and not provide the strength needed for ones in abusive situations to free themselves.
Shotgun:
Damn good point and believe me, I do not consider myself to be special because of an acute sense of awareness and connectvity at times. I think we all as humans have the ability to lower our character armour and attain this skill.
As to the experience being God's spirit or spirit/universal energy - I keep my mind open as to the source of the experience.
I am happy to hear alternate explanations of this, my reality.
Energy? spirit? semantics
El blanko's experience may have been from a spirit, or could have been him tapping into his own, or a community subconscious, or something else.
Satanus:
I have no way of telling which is truth. The predicted pattern of events within the stated example upon the carrier wave were detailed and literally stopped me in my tracks afterwards.
Now, how does this energy or spirit know future events? Does the carrier wave contain all probable data regarding circumstantial outcome, based around patterns of individual behaviour noted back down the timeline?
I have no idea and can only impress upon the thread that the feelings I felt were tangible.
Whatever the explanation - it still blows my mind and makes me aware of invisible realities.
Rodbar,
Many of the "mystical" experiences have no way of being measured, it's true, but why just sit there not doing or thinking anything and shrugging it all of to probability? Nothing ever gets done, no advances ever made, with that kind of lackadaisical attitude.
This attitude is ironic to me. The fact is that incredible advances have been made in the scientific era specifically because superstitious beliefs were cast aside for rational ones. And scientists have studied this field for a long time now. No progress has been made in finding paranormal causes - but you know what? Scientists have made progress by studying it - they have made tremendous progress in the field of psychology and biology of the brain.
No, let's not go back to the days of superstition ans pseudoscience. That is when real progress will come to a halt.
rem
Rodbar,
Another thing: What you are saying reminds me of ancient alchemists looking for the elusive recipe for making gold out of other common elements.
Even Newton practiced alchemy. For centuries they tried and tried, but gold was not made. Today we know that alchemy is pseudoscience - they would have never found the recipe for gold because it does not exist! But progress did come from this field and today we know of it as chemistry. Amazing progress has been made in the field of chemistry - our modern lives depend on it.
It is analogous with parapsychology and psychology. For nearly a century parapsychologists have been looking for the tiniest incling of paranormal activity. They have been disappointed time after time after time. So far, there isn't one indisputed positive result. On the other hand, scientists have learned much about human psychology with studies of parapsychology. That is where the real advances are being made. Parapsychology is about as dead as alchemy right now.
I wouldn't waste my time on studying alchemy and nor would I waste my time studying parapsychology - except for learning about how it relates to psychology and other sciences.
If you can show me one amazing advance that the study of parapsychology has made (that doesn't have to do with psychology), then I will eat my words. Of course, I can list of thousands made by real science.
rem
Rem, for one who so prides himself on science and the mind, I wish the hell you'd please get ROBDAR's name correct! LMAO!
Rem, dude, call it what you will, science, whatever, I think that we are probably coming at the subject from opposite ends and will meet in the middle..........meanwhile, check out my new thread, please, and give me your consensus!
Ter
rem,
Well, I confess that I have been going through a paradigm shift of late. I once held a similar viewpoint to the one you are expressing in this thread and, in many ways, I still do. Nonetheless, some of what you state can be argued against quite profoundly.
For instance, you state that there are some things which are, as yet, "unexplained" and state that some people put faith in accepting a supernatural explanation while "skeptics" simply state that they "don't know." My experience with skeptics, and in being a skeptic myself, is that they very seldom state that they "just don't know." Whereas the "true believer" dogmatically states that the "paranormal event" is truly supernatural, the skeptic -- perhaps "scoffer" is the better word -- dogmatically puts faith that there is a natural, materialist explanation. That may be the case, but sometimes such rigid skepticism becomes just as unbendable and without justification as the belief of "true believers."
You state that there is no evidence for the paranormal and that parapsychologists have been searching fruitlessly time and time again. This is, of course, what skeptical critics of the paranormal would say, not what parapsychologists themselves say. As a matter of fact, there is circumstantial evidence that the paranormal might actually be a real, unexplained phenomenon. I would do a Google search under the name, "Lawrence Leshan" and see what you find. He is a well-respected psychologist with a PhD from the University of Chicago and has done some fascinating research into the paranormal. And there are others as well. Carl Rogers and Abraham Maslow -- both heavy-duty names in psychology, both past presidents of the APA -- were open to the possibility of the paranormal.
Let us just admit it: Many skeptics have their own biases and agenda. There are a few names in the skeptical community -- guys like James Randi, Michael Shermer, Paul Kurtz -- who beat the materialist/atheist drum just as loudly and unreflexively as Christian Fundamentalists.
One of the reasons why the paranormal is not accepted is that there is no working theory as to how it works. Science is theory-laden, as Thomas Kuhn pointed out, and as such tends to dismiss anything that is not worked out in a theory. There are many examples of people who had "fringe" ideas that were scoffed at simply because their views did not fit into a workable theory. Continental drift, for instance, was widely speculated to have happened but few scientists accepted it -- actually many ridiculed the idea -- until the theory of plate-tectonics was developed. What was once laughed at is now proper science. Could the same be true of some aspects of what is now called "the paranormal"?
Really, I do think you have heard just one side of the story.
Bradley
rem,
If you can show me one amazing advance that the study of parapsychology has made (that doesn't have to do with psychology), then I will eat my words. Of course, I can list of thousands made by real science.
So, if practicality and past-success is the barometer for "real science" we should cut all funding to SETI?
B.
Really, I do think you have heard just one side of the story.
Oh please.
