Into the mystic (an experience). (page 9)

LittleToe

REM:

If you can show me one amazing advance that the study of parapsychology has made (that doesn't have to do with psychology), then I will eat my words. Of course, I can list of thousands made by real science.

Given that many parascience explorations have turned up something for the rational mind, leading to true scientific advancement, you are being disingenuous at best. Many of the examples you would profer, from science, have been transmuted from parascientific research. The true irony is that you highlighted a couple, yourself. Alchemy being one. I guess parascience can't claim it any more, because science has claimed it as it's own and stamped a patent on it!

If paranormal research could just match one of the breakthroughs of scientific, rational thinking, then I would change my mind about it.

I'm sorry. I hope you'll excuse me if I sincerely doubt that. You are like Randi and his ilk. It would never be "proved" to your satisfaction because there would always be "one more doubt". And you wonder why no-one takes your brand of cynicism seriously?

No one is asking Monet to paint a masterpiece - they are just asking him to slap some paint on a canvas to see if the paint actually exists.

And so you evidence your lack of understanding of the parascience. Bradley's analogy was an excellent one. As a skeptic, however, you just have to meddle with the test data, huh?

I can't believe you're involved in the SETI thing. What a hypocrite - LOL.
You know that the parasciences have sections for belief in little green men, yes?

Six:

Actually no, Bradley, I have very little cynicism in me.

Aye, that was a faux pas, on his part. Your affections are now directed towards Europe Narkissos: I don't believe your comments were rude in the slightest.

I think many "religious" or "spiritual" persons are greatly mistaken when they speak of their spiritual way as something good for everyone at any time.

I would agree. For example there's a sector of Christianity that's preaching a "prosperity gospel", wherein folks expect to get what they want by way of money, health, relationships, etc. Personally I detest it, and feel it couldn't be further away from the core "suffering" that was actually expoused in the gospels.

El blanko

Show me the replicated experiments.

REM:

I'm not sure what you will make of this.

One of my best friends has had experiences for many years and a short while ago with an open mind I decided to press him for further information and help quantify the data (if you like).

Now, his experiences are unusual in the way they occur, as they have been witnessed by others and in particular one chap who reminds me slightly of you (well, your opinions I should say).

Anyway... the experiences:

1. Constant orbs & misting around his house which he can often ask to appear. This occurs every week at the moment and if he seeks the experience - daily. An orb has also appeared outside of the house, and within his presence. Orbs have also passed through the last house he lived in. His girlfriend also sees the orbs and a skeptical friend (that chap mentioned earlier) has sat in on sessions and witnessed temperature changes and light manifestation.

2. The usual temperature changes in certain areas of his house during manifestation - rooms becoming increasingly cold.

3. A few years back, a dark figure appeared at the end of his bed on two occasions. Then on the third occasion a ghostly white image of a girl appeared at the side of his bed. During this series of apparitions he had horrific nightmares where he was grappling with a dark figure on top of a cliff, it was after the girl appeared that he was released from the dream. Of course, this was isolated and personal to my friend, so cannot be verified by an outside source, although he assures me that he was wide awake when viewing the figures (and really scared).

4. In two places he lived a pulse of energy shot through the property and shook the furniture (we do not live in an area usually affected by earthquakes by the way - just to cover that one). I believe his girlfriend also felt this.

5. Premonition in a minor way of events through dreams.

His sister also has profound experiences and his father although having been apparently a talented astrologer and having an active interest in the occult many years ago, will now not discuss his feelings towards his son and daughter's experiences and tends to try and direct them away from pursuing their interest.

His sister claims to have medium ability and once had an experience with a demon who revealed it's name and she will not discuss the matter with her brother and reveal the name due to fear and this event appears to have marked her.

The orbs have been captured using a digital camera and he also uses other equipment to record environmental changes at the time of his experiences.

I have been invited over to sit in with him, but being the coward that I am - well, I can't quite shake off the ' Dark Gods ' in my mind.

This guy has never been a JW, is not a Christian, does not believe in a personal God, loves technology and science and is starting to question the fabric of this reality based around his experiences through the years.

What really freaked him out was asking the room (as he describes it) to show itself and orbs manifesting. This he only did recently and has opened up a whole new world of possibilities in terms of theory.

Anyway - I know it is easy to push this all into the land of the fairies, but I wish you knew my friend and my other friends who have all had odd experiences including physical manifestation.

I stand amongst them as the skeptic (on purpose); attempting to put a rational spin on these things. I consider this as important a role as their role as the mystic and purveyor of the supernatural.

None of this adds anything to your life, I understand that and have nothing of worth to offer you, aside from the possibility of a belief system in other realities aside from the immediate and verifible objective universe.

El blanko

Alchemy being one. I guess parascience can't claim it any more, because science has claimed it as it's own and stamped a patent on it!

LT:

A true statement. The forefathers of modern science would be considered occult practitioners.

LittleToe

ElB:
I suspect that if REM answers your example at all, it will to be to ultimately call you dishonest. If I recall correctly he did that concerning a thread last year, wherein two people saw something leap off of a table, in full sight and without an accompanying earthquake.

I find your friend's experience interesting. Being the kind of fool who treads where angels fear to, I'd be inclined to take him up on his offer, complete with electronic apparatus.

El blanko

I find your friend's experience interesting. Being the kind of fool who treads where angels fear to, I'd be inclined to take him up on his offer, complete with electronic apparatus.

Feel free - hehe.

Oh well, regarding REMs probable response ... it doesn't matter, we believe what we choose to believe.

El blanko

An example to be scoffed at:

These orbs James saw in clusters moving around his front room and took a snap shot, this happened last week.

SixofNine

*scoffs*

El blanko

*scoffs*

Hehe - I understand - but what are you actually *scoffing* at?

He took many shots and we had to ditch most them due to them looking like lens flare or dust particles.

I examined these using Adobe Photoshop and they are really interesting up close:

ballistic

Well, sorry to poop on your thread which I haven't had the time to read the whole thing, but when this happens...

Well, I had a strange spam-mail arrive one weekend.
The spam-mail had the name - smith* elder

you have a virus on your computer which is scanning your mail box for phrases to insert into email headers. I thought I had better tell you as it is possibly also using your mailbox to spam others.

El blanko

Yes, thanks for the warning. I know you are sincere, but I covered this angle at the time and should have mentioned it in my original post.

The name smith (obviously NOT the real name) is no part of my address book and I searched stored mails for the name and there was no reference to be found.

I also have no hideous virus that is likely to pass to others at the moment via my mail box, but thanks for the 'heads-up' all the same.

edited to add: even if that were the case and I had a virus, considering the SPAM mail I do get and the random nature of the headers & names - that particular mail still had relevance due to the timing. I accept that this could be viewed as being rather fanciful and take your point onboard.

Into the mystic (an experience).

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