What are Americans taught about U.S and what do you really believe? (page 11)

sleepy

By the way i have nothing against America or Americans.
There is a lot about america I like.
What I am against is government enforced indoctrinisation of people to condition them to think they are the best, which is what it seams like is happening in the US more than any other western land.

Remember this debate is in good humour I love you all,wink wink.

Golf

Yeah, this is my kind of thread. Our morning coffee crew go through this type of chatter every day.

Paxill hit on the head when he said, "Politicians have to be the most disgusting, dispicable genre of people in the world. They are drawn to power and money and the perks. They are prisoners of excess."

I exactly know what Paxill is talking about and he's not cynical.

History is written for and by the victors, my friends, we are given the crumbs of history.

Guest 77

Xena

What I am against is government enforced indoctrinisation of people to condition them to think they are the best, which is what it seams like is happening in the US more than any other western land.

I just told you my experience going to school on a military base and there wasn't any enforced indoctrinisation. Seems to me you want to believe there is regardless of what anyone who lives here and went to school here might want to tell you. So basically we are all pretty much wasting our time because you don't want to hear what we really are taught here, you just want your own preconceived notions of the US to be proven and will ignore anyone and anything that doesn't support it.

Shame you didn't say so in the beginning of the post..would have saved everyone a lot of time

PS All in good said in good humor old chap *wink, wink, nudge*

HappyDad

In the "immortal" words of Rodney King...................."Can't we all just get along?"

HappyDad

jws

I don't know if it's been mentioned here (I only skimmed up to page 4), but there's a great book by James W Loewen called Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong. If you're interested in reading it, you can find it at Amazon at:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684818868/qid%3D1090963745/

The basic premise of the book, citing several different American history textbooks is that the purpose of American History is not to give you an honest historical perspective, but to teach patriotism and allegience to this country. That it presents a Euro-centric view of our history, ignoring or glossing over the contributions of native inhabitants and sometimes other countries to our culture and survival as a nation.

You come out of American history thinking that Americans always did the right thing and made it through their hard work alone - without help. Between movies and the coverage of (or lack of coverage of) native Americans in history books, you'd think there weren't that many of them and that they were simple-minded savages and that knowledge flowed only one way: from the superior Europeans to the simple natives. The slant in favor of whites and/or European settlers almost borders on racism.

Not that everything needs to be covered in a textbook. But all of the negatives are stripped out of the books, glossed over, or represented in a way that sheds a favorable light on the Americans. It makes history boring. You never see the conflict. You never understand the motivations. I find history a lot more fascinating now when I read more honest and unbiased versions of it. Kind of like the Awake/Watchtower being so one-sided. You never hear the pros and cons of each side and are allowed to judge for yourself. You are only shown what they want you to believe.

As for Americans, how do we feel? I heard a great analogy from a friend. Some Americans love their country the way a 3-year-old child loves their mommy. Mommy is loved unconditionally. Mommy is always right and always good and is the best mommy in the whole world. Mommy is always defended as the best mommy and no problems with mom are ever acknowledged. Other Americans love their country the way an adult loves their mom. Mom is not some perfect ideal. They realize that mom isn't always perfect and has her faults. Maybe there are things about mom you can't stand. But, hopefully, you still love her anyway, taking the good and acknowledging the bad. As an adult, you probably aren't going to get into a "my mommy's the best mommy in the world" argument with anyone. You'll realize the argument is pointless. You're mother means as much to you as somebody else's does to them. You each love your mothers and hopefully are respectful of other people's mothers and their relationships to them.

I love my country like an adult.

Crazy151drinker

Well I'll be the first one to admit that the US has screwed over alot of countries- mainly the Native American Nations, Mexico, and Vietnam. However, what we have done isnt anything new. The Europeans have being screwing each other and their colonies for hundreds of years. I wonder why a vast percentage of Mexicans are Catholic . If the British had gotten there first im sure they would be Protastant. As far a 'glossing over' our history- we do it in the lower grades. When youre making Thanksgiving posters in kindergarden and giving thanks for Squanto saving our asses its a tad bit innapropriate to tell little Johnny that we killed the vast majority of Squanto's relatives. In college America's agressive actions are quite clear. The "Trail of Tears" was in every History book I read. Questions regarding the truthfulness of "Remember the Maine!" are rampant. Andrew Jackson was an Indian killer. So were most of the politicians and Presidents of that time. It was the thing to do! They were "savages"! To be fair though- they were 'savages' when the English were here. The English never stopped and said "hey- you should be nice to those native Americans". They were too busy killing and oppressing the Irish and the rest of their colonies. Shaka Zulu anyone? And about that whole Slavery thing:

All servants imported and brought into the Country. . . who were not Christians in their native Country. . . shall be accounted and be slaves. All Negro, mulatto and Indian slaves within this dominion. . . shall be held to be real estate. If any slave resists his master. . . correcting such slave, and shall happen to be killed in such correction. . . the master shall be free of all punishment. . . as if such accident never happened.

- Virginia General Assembly declaration, 1705 (still British thank you very much)

And something that MUST be pointed out. Many EUROPEANS on this board are pissed off at America for sticking our noses in the world's business. How easily they forget that before WWI and WWII Americans as a whole believed in Isolation. We wanted to be left alone and did not want to deal with Europes CONSTANT WARS. Even after WWI we went into a Period of Isolation. We didnt want to be Involved. But for a SECOND time we were dragged into it. (Granted- there is a good chance we did little to prevent Pearl Harbor. The American people didnt want to be involved in WWII....). After WWII the greater minds in power said "Hey- we are already here, lets stay and prevent this crap from happening again!" By that time the Cold War had started and the rest of the problems and wars we have been in can be directly tired to our conflict with the Soviets. Even our current Middle East problems are directly associated with the Cold war. The Shah of Iran, Afghanistan, etc..etc.. were all Cold war problems that we continue to deal with today.

So remember my fellow Europeans, we were quite content with our own little Hemisphere......

I fail to see how we are "brainwashed". We love our Country. But that is the Country. The Country doesnt attack other countries. The Flag doesnt attack other countires. That is our leadership. And if you look at the polls you will find that 50% hates our current leadership and wants a new one. Hardly "brainwashing". And if its anyone who says "We love American, its the land of oppertunity and freedom," its the countless immigrants who come here for a better life. I dont remember the Irish immigrating to England....I wonder why??

sleepy

"I just told you my experience going to school on a military base and there wasn't any enforced indoctrinisation" If being made to salute the flag is the law , and to swear aligence to the country is the law then there is enforced indoctrinisation.Simple as that.If not theres not. Dont want to harp on about it .Other countries have made mistakes but we are clearly taught this in school. "I dont remember the Irish immigrating to England....I wonder why??" There are lots of Irish in Britian.

Xena

it isn't the law that you have to swear allegiance to the flag or say the pledge.

Crazy151drinker

If being made to salute the flag is the law , and to swear aligence to the country is the law then there is enforced indoctrinisation

Sorry, no such law.

Maybe you have been indoctrinated to believe such nonsense?

L_A_Big_Dawg

I just told you my experience going to school on a military base and there wasn't any enforced indoctrinisation. Seems to me you want to believe there is regardless of what anyone who lives here and went to school here might want to tell you. So basically we are all pretty much wasting our time because you don't want to hear what we really are taught here, you just want your own preconceived notions of the US to be proven and will ignore anyone and anything that doesn't support it.

What Zena said, and in spades, too.

This thread tires me.

LABD

What are Americans taught about U.S and what do you really believe?

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