What are Americans taught about U.S and what do you really believe? (page 14)

Xena

if saluting were an enforceable law there would be JW's by the dozen being given citations for not observing it or being put in jail. but I guess you won't believe me when I say that isn't the case either, huh?

and my point wasn't that you were english..I used the english because in error I believed you to be english...I don't make a point of looking at people's nationalities, it's not that important to me, but in your case I apparently should have since I was using your nationality as an example. unlike some, I'm willing to admit when I am in error my point was that every country is nationalist or has nationalist people in it.

and I'm sorry I don't believe you aren't nationalistic about your country....of if you are, you must be like the only person who isn't....I mean that is how you reason with us regarding OUR posts to you...

This was your question

What are Americans taught about U.S and what do you really believe?

Several people answered you giving their life experiences, which appears to be what you are asking about....you don't acknowledge them beyond saying that they must be a minority....

You don't want to know what we are taught, you don't want to know what we believe....otherwise you would comment on the things actually posted about that....ask us questions that pertain to what we actually posted about what we are taught...you have no interest in us or our beliefs, your only interest is in trying to promote your own agenda. Shame too because this could have been an interesting and informative discussion.

sleepy

Xena,I do belive you,I was confusing the past with the present. JW 's used to go to court for refussing to salute the flag , this has all changed and acommodation has been mad on religious grounds. I agree with you that every country has nationalistic people and government polices .I see I have made the mistake of not acknoweldging everybodies viewpoint which I do.I do want to know what you are taugh and i am listening.The internet for me is not like a conversation, i post in the middle of doing other things and I am not the best writter. The point is I am an outsider looking in , flag saluting and pledges of alligence just sound vey troubling to me. Do you not find it possible that people from nations were this does not happen may find it overly nationalistic?

gypsywildone

The point is I am an outsider looking in , flag saluting and pledges of alligence just sound vey troubling to me. Do you not find it possible that people from nations were this does not happen may find it overly nationalistic?

I find it more puzzling that you even care Sleepy. How come? What is so fascinating? Why would YOU be troubled by something that seems to have nothing to do with you? Just because other nations may not have a flag salute, why would they even CARE if America does, or does not? Is all the news over there all about America? Or are you basing this on a 30 second sound bite?

sleepy

"I find it more puzzling that you even care Sleepy' There are degrees of careing.I like to look at the things that may influence human behaviour without us being fully aware.strong nationalism has been a cause of world problems in the past and today. "Just because other nations may not have a flag salute, why would they even CARE if America does, or does not?' There are many people in america that do think it matters , thats why the laws on it have been changed.Nazi germay had a similair flag salute when it was in power,did this effect the people?.I believe nationalism can effect peoples beliefs systems and may stop them questioning their countries actions.Just the same as religious devotion ie JW's. " Is all the news over there all about America? Or are you basing this on a 30 second sound bite? " No its not, but issues relating to America such as Iraq are certainly world issues that feature in our lives.

Xena

The point is I am an outsider looking in , flag saluting and pledges of alligence just sound vey troubling to me. Do you not find it possible that people from nations were this does not happen may find it overly nationalistic?

To be honest I never even considered whether or not other nations had a flag salute. I suppose it could be troubling if you have never been in a normal US class room full of grade school kids....I think the pledge is more of an exercise in trying to get them to keep still for a few minutes than anything

My daughter is going into 4th grade and has done the pledge since she has been in school....but that isn't the only influnce in her life....she has very liberal parents ...I suppose in a family where the parents are very conservative and patriotic themselves the pledge might take on more significance for the child. Although I came from a military family and it was all like water off a ducks back to me...so I suppose it also depends on the child.

Big Tex made a good point when it comes to nationalism....the US like other countries has cycled....I think WWII was probably when we were at our most patriotic, then the Vietnam War occured and made us more aware that our goverment wasn't all knowing and we also realized we could disagree with it without sacrificing our underlying pride in being a US citizen. I think there is a movement to try and bring back the patriotism of WWII with this war, but it doesn't seem to be doing well overall I don't think anyway....

I'm curious about your feelings regarding Welsh nationalism and culteral pride...if you don't mind my asking you...

Big Tex

Nazi germay had a similair flag salute when it was in power,did this effect the people?

I just had a feeling that the Nazis were going to make its way into the conversation sooner or later.

Look, despite what you seem to think, schools across the United States are not filled with jack booted children saying the Pledge with tears in their eyes while overcome with patriotic nationalistic feelings. Are there people like that? Sure, but that is not an accurate, realistic portrait of this country.

When I was in school 30 years ago no one gave a damn what I thought about the country. After elementary school, the Pledge was never said (except a few times at pep rallies before a football game; never understood the connection by the way). Today I allowed Nina to teach our kids JW beliefs so that when they first went to school they did not say the Pledge. Again, no one batted an eye. No teacher said a word, no other kid ridiculed them (although a couple did ask).

The national athem is usually sung before sporting events (baseball, football, etc.). That started in the 30s during the Depression as a way to improve morale in the country and it's sort of stuck. Now it's a tradition. The only time I've ever seen a big deal made about it was during the first Gulf War and right after 9/11.

Can nationalism affect people? Well yeah. That's rather self-evident isn't it? I think Europe circa 1914-1918 is an excellent example of how nationalism affects people and the disastrous consequences of such fervor.

Are Americans more nationalistic than other countires? I don't know, haven't thought about it very much. It's possible. Maybe right now in our history we are. Other times in the recent past, we certainly were not. However you started this thread on the idea of asking

What are Americans taught about U.S and what do you really believe?

and that's fine, but I do object if you want to use this premise as a platform to state your own opinions about this country while ignoring people who have answered your question. If you think America is ultra-nationalistic that's fine by me, but start a thread on that premise instead of asking for opinions and then ignoring them.

sleepy

Sorry about the title, it?s just what came into my head at the time, and I?ve sort of wandered from there.
As to Welshness , and views on its nationalism, in sort I think its not worth it and I don?t actually like Welsh culture as it is too backward looking.
Welsh is the most heavily subsidised minority language in the world.
There are a small amount of people who speak the Welsh language mainly in North Wales, while most of the population lives down South and speaks only English and has done for hundreds of years and hasn't a clue about the Welsh language. All public signs have to be in both Welsh and English in the whole country, which is a waste of money for a language that is essentially dead. Yet Welsh has to be taught in Welsh schools and favouritism is shown to welsh speakers for education jobs. In England there is a TV channel called channel 4, in Wales this is replaced with SAC a channel in Welsh, yet hardly anyone watches it as the programmes are in Welsh, and are crap, as programmes are made because they are Welsh not because they are good.
This is all money down the drain that could be spent on more important things than preserving a minority language.
Basically a Welsh Nationalist country would have a minority rule. This is never a good thing it a bit like Cornwall (an English county with a small remnant of its own language) ruling England and the whole of England being forced to speak Cornish.

L_A_Big_Dawg

The longer you guys play this fool's game the more he can make himself look important, and educated.

He is another America hater in a room full of America haters.

Die, thread, die.

LABD

SixofNine

:He is another America hater in a room full of America haters.

LittleToe

Sleepy:We have a similar obsession with the Gaeilic language.
Have you ever tried to find paper plates in a hurry, when the signage is in your second language?

L_A:

He is another America hater in a room full of America haters.

Ah, that must be it, yes, everyone with a low opinion of what they see in the media about a country must hate it...
Pity the poor fools who dare discuss it and reach a more educated opinion...

What are Americans taught about U.S and what do you really believe?

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