Not a Jehovah's Witness, but studying.

by scoobie 153 Replies latest members private

DaCheech

Scoobie, JW will dupe you into believing they know everything
DaCheech

Your study is not Genuine love, but you're just a number to
report in their monthly field service reports. Then thy will use
you as a bragging point during the meetings, of how they convinced you.
Do yourself a favor ask the hard questions now.... They will keep on answering those "we will get to those later, and you will understand"
Max Divergent

"I do want a well organized religion. One that has answers to my questions rather than "just have faith" The JW's seemed to have that."

Yes, they have answers. If you want simple, hard to refute answers to difficult questions the JW's will provide that. No doubt about it. The extent to which the answers will prove to be true is another question.

If having those answers will satisfy you in your life, then JW's may suit you. On the other hand, there may be a heavy price to pay down the road.

You also note that the answers are 'proved' true from your bible. Yes, they will be. I remember that I "won" 95% of the bible discussions I had using the non-JW's bible. The 5% I lost were to people who had both a better bible knowledge and argumentation skills that me - the JW's teach their version of both well.

They pointed out errors in context and unfounded assumptions that were nessasary to read the bible (any translation) in the way that the JW's do. I ended up seeing through the smokescreens and half truths I'd been taught and had used for many years.

Now, maybe I just succumed to tricks from the devil to turn me away from 'the truth'. Maybe. But the further away from the JW's I get, the happier I am.

Regards, Max
gdt

May I please enter this discussion? I am an active Witness, and would again ask for the sort of life I have had these past 50 years dedicated to the creator, and trrying to be in unity with the people God is using to spread the truth. However 'scoobie' truth can mean different things to differant people. We all are human and our very being is made up of part selfish/part kind/ part powerful/etc, all the expressions of love/wisdom/justice and power that is 'God'.
Everyone's experiences here on this site highlight the negative of what humans have done to each other, and a lot of these stories here (which I can believe) prove it is not a good idea to dedicate oneself to an organization or another human. I've got to 65 and haven't yet found a more beautiful person than my mum....not perfect, just very good.....and the brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses is full of beautiful people, And I have to say, please, make use of Youngs or Strongs Analytical Concordances and any translation. The NWT (New World) translation is not in English in every verse exactly the very original Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic of Holy Scripture. what we have of the copies of copies of copies of the original manuscripts..But surely the Creator would preserve his Word enough to gather a 'people for his name's sake', a group capable of fulfilling a preaching assignment (Mt 24:14) and doing it as a 'brotherhood in all the earth'. How else can we obey Jesus' words to be 'at one' with each other if we are not at one with fellow believers all over the earth, God is not partial, I could be a blackfellow or an indian, and if my heart is right could be 'at one' with fellow Witnesses.
All the opinions you have been offered show whether there is 'oneness', whether there is 'love among yourselves'. Please listen but discern what is real truth, 'by their fruits you will know them', and please feel free to communicate with me on any, any question. Every negative on this site is just that.
No one here can, or has identified themselves and said 'I am the way, the truth and the light' so the more we can come closer to Christ and his truth, should we not be doing the right thing in God's eyes?
May you be blessed with peace and love, and calmness and decency....my sincere thoughts,
Geoff.
Max Divergent

Hi Geoff - I just wanted to say that I appreciate having a sensible JW post here. I wish there were more.
Yerusalyim

Scoobie,
Another example of over literalism by the JW's. The 144,000 number. That number is a SYMBOL...it represents the fullness of all who are to be saved. 12X12X1000....12 tribes....12 apostles....1000 meaning FULLNESS. Make a little more sense?
If you have specific questions about the JW's send me a PM or write me at [email protected]
Sirona

Hi Geoff,
Whilst I accept some of what you said, I don't believe that JWs are producing good fruits. They are segregated from the rest of society and the only thing they really promote is to preach to the so called "worldly" people. They don't actually promote love toward others, except love toward other JWs.
There are so many other organisations and churches who do lots of charity work - and I'm not saying the churches are ALL good, but what I'm saying is that after leaving the JWs I've seen more actual charity from other individuals than I ever saw in JWs. Nowadays I can love other people because I don't have to feel that Jehovah is condemning them. It is difficult to open your heart to say, a homosexual, if you seriously believe that God is about to kill them at armageddon, for instance. For that very reason many JWs really do close off their hearts and don't show love to people except those they deem as approved of.
The disfellowshipping rule is one example of this warped type of "love" which is actually thinly disguised hatred.
Sirona
scoobie

My husband an I prayed about it last night, and talked and have decided that we are no longer going to study with them. The hope is that simply telling them that we no longer want to study and when asked why, to tell them we have our personal reasons why. We are hoping it can be left at that. But I'm fearing it won't be that easy. We prayed that God would be with us and give us the words to use and the strength to stand firm. Though he has been doubtful the whole time, and really made these people have to work hard to even convince him of the tiniest thing, I have been more believing and interested in studying. So we think they are at least going to try and get to me. But we are giong to present a united front. My husband has decided to go to three people at work, that know we have been studying, and tell them that we are no longer going to be studying with them. He has talked to one last night, a co worker. He will be talking to the service manager and the owner before he tells his GM. His hope is that if......not saying it will, but if the elder decides to take it out on my husband at work, other people will have been forewarned and will hopefully take what is said or done with a grain of salt and my husband won't lose his job. There are a few reasons why I feel we can no longer study in this religion.
Disfellowship: This part has kind of stuck with me since the begining, and I keep going back to ask questions about it. I moved on from it because I was interested in learning other things, and didn't want to get hung up on one topic. Though it did keep coming back to that and I would ask. I don't think it's anyone's place to judge another and "shun" them from an entire group of people, family included. If people in a congregation feel that associating with a person is no in their best interest spiritually or otherwise, that is their decision to make, not a committee's.
No Blood: I know that there are many new things in the medical field that make it possible to have bloodless surgeries. So the chances that I or a member of my family would actually die if they didn't have a blood transfusion is very slim. But, the chance is still there. I know that if I was told that without a blood transfusion my child would die I cuoldn't deny them that. At that point I think I would be playing God. The life of my child is in my hands and I would be expected to deny them life? I don't think so.
1914: This I'm not buying. Tell me how they can predict that God's kingdom came into power in terms that are so exact, yet they can't predict armegedon? They just know we are in the end times. They are no better than any other religion in being able to predict the end. But the can predict that date? They are the ONLY religion that can predict such things accurately? Not buying that either.
144,00: This has been another hard one to swallow. I have been faced with JW's before over the years, and that was always the thing that I got hung up on then also. Why would I want to believe in a religion that feels only 144,000 people will go to heaven? That makes no sense. Be good, follow God's law and you too might be one of the lucky 144,000 that will get to go to heaven. My bible has always said THE FIRST 144,000 that go to heaven. Not implying that only that number go, but that there is something special about THE FIRST 144,000 through the gates.
Sexual Abuse: Pedophelia seems to run rampant in this religion. The sad fact is, children can be and are molested anywhere and in any religion. So it's not that I feel only in the JW's would my children be at risk. But their policy on how to handle it is where I take issue. I would not go to an elder first if this happened to my child. I would go to the hospital first and then call the police. Then I would contact and elder for support. If they expect me to do any different, then that is wrong. I would also warn anyone with young children about this person. If I had to take a billboard out to do so. I can understand a congregation not wanting to condone gossip among it's members. But in an instance like this it is not gossip, but information that anyone with young children has a right to know. The issue of a woman screaming before she is raped. I don't know how true that is or not. But if it is how they see it, then again, not for me. What if she is gagged? What if she is told to be quiet or die? What if she is just too terrified to do anything? I would hope there would be exceptions to the rule. But still, just because a person doesn't react in a certain way doesn't mean they were a willing participant in something so horrible.
I was raised Southern Baptist. I was always at odds in my mind with what I was being taught. I was made to feel that good Christians go to church three days a week. They don't swear, they don't drink, and if you do you best repeeeeeeeeeent or burn in hell. I was terrified of God. I was ashamed of just about every natural emotion or physical feeling I ever had. I didn't understand why they felt that interacial marraiges were wrong. If we are all God's people it shouldn't matter what color or nationality someone is. I never understood their detesting of homosexuals. What they do may not be right biblically, but they as a person are not bad. I couldn't believe that God would see their sin anyworse then someone elses. And surely God wouldn't turn his back on a sinner for swearing, so why would He turn his back on someone who is homosexual? I was always told to witness. Go forth and tell the good news. And so when I would befriend kids in the "deviant" group, I was told that I shouldn't be hanging out with those kids. That I should find some good Christian friends. Ok, well tell me how I am suppose to witness to good Christian kids? That just didn't make sense to me. In areas I guess the Baptist and JW's are alike. They both believe in witnessing and spreading God's word. Though the JW's are deffinately more agressive and active in that area. They both believe that Jesus died so that we might have everlasting life. The argument is where that will be exactly. The thing I just can't get past is the commitee and the fact that these elders are in a sense here to decide our fate. That is no one's job but God's to judge and decide our fate. Anyone putting them selves in the position to tell another human weather or not they are good in God's eyes or bad, is making themselve way more important than they are. And are elevating themselves to a status that in my opinion would not please God.
All of that being said....I will no longer be studying with the JW's. I am grateful that I found this site and that I received so much helpful information. I ask all of you to please pray for us to be strong and to come out of this with as little confrontation as possible. I know there is power in prayer and I beileve that God is on our side in this situation and with Him in our hearts we can't go wrong. I wish I knew that believing in God was enough. that believing in Him, and the fact that He gave His son for our sins, and that following His commandments was enough. But for some reason I'm hung up on the fact that it's not enough to believe that. That you have to go to church and be a part of a group in order for it to be official or something. Anyway, thanks again. Ya'll have been a tremendous help.
Scoobie
undercover

Please do not believe everything these people are saying. People who have faded in the religion and don't have this much hatred can of be of better help to you. Some of these things being presented to you are half-truths. None of these people worship God in unity. And none, I can assure you, would put God first.

Joker,
This thread was started by a sincere woman who has questions about Jehovah's Witnesses. She has heard the JW side, now she is seeking opinions from others sources. She is aware that most here are ex-JWs or non-JWs. We have, for the most part, not told her what to believe or think or do. We gave her our opinions and what we know and what we have experienced. We have also encouraged her to do her own research, learn more about it on her own and make her own decision.
You come on here and say, "don't believe these people" yet you offer nothing to prove why we are lying or prove why JWs maybe right. If you can help this woman, post something helpful. Calling us liars and selfish does no one any good. Why not post something about why she should study with JWs if that's what you think she should do. Give some advice to help this woman and leave your petty attacks on us for another thread.
Edited to add to Scoobie:
Just saw your post after I posted. Good luck to you and your family. May you find the path that you are looking for.
undercover

bttt ....
I posted so close behind scoobie that I don't think anyone realizes she posted with something important. Please read her post.

Not a Jehovah's Witness, but studying.

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