Not a Jehovah's Witness, but studying.

by scoobie 153 Replies latest members private

  • undercover
    undercover

    Welcome Scoobie,

    I am an "inactive" JW. I don't really consider myself a JW anymore, but I'm still on their books as a member. One thing to remember, if you get baptized as a JW, you're stuck. You can't leave without repurcussions. To speak against the Governing Body or disagree with doctrine is the same as being a heretic. It will get you either disfellowshipped or disassociated. Two words, same thing. They will shun you, try to force any JW family members to choose the religion over family, meaning you can be cut off from your family.

    I personally did some research and realized that I had been fooled my entire life (I was raised as a JW). Once I realized that the JWs were NOT the "one true" religion, I was done with it. But since I and all my family were raised in it, I just couldn't "quit going". Currently I'm stuck in a limbo land. I'm considered "weak" and "unspiritual" by all my JW family and friends, but I can't come out and defend myself. To do so will mean being DAd or DFd and then no family.

    It is good that you are doing this research before going any further with this or any religion. People should know what they are getting into. Learning both sides of the issues is very important in making an informed decision. Pay attention to the JWs and how they research things. They claim that all beliefs are Bible based. How much Bible study is done at the meetings compared to studying their own publications? Have you ever noticed that the Ministry School/Service Meeting (if you've attended one yet) is more like a sales training seminar than a Bible study class? Are other outside sources used in their studies? Are conflicting ideas or thoughts allowed to be discussed? Think about it. Any group that tries to control information about itself from its members or prospective members may be hiding something. Tell your JW associates that your studying the JWs on the Internet and see what reaction you get. If it's negative, let that be a warning to you.

    That's not to say that JWs are all bad, mean people. In fact, most JWs are sincere, good people who just want to serve God like people in other religions. But they aren't any better than other people. They have their share of wrong doers themselves. They just like to keep that quiet so as to not bring "reproach on Jehovah's name" or on the "organization".

    There are some here who have been hurt to various degrees by the teachings and dogma of the JWs. They are angry and will on no uncertain terms let you know just how angry they are. Take the time to read their stories and you will see a side of the JWs that you haven't seen yet. Stick around and read, you'll learn a lot about the WTS and JWs that you'll never learn at a Kingdom Hall.

    Good luck.

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Oh and I just remembered:

    If you ask them about any of these contradictions in your bible study you will get the following response (note: how do I know? because they're a cult and we ex-cult members can predict with amazing accuracy what they'll say)

    They'll say this:

    Yes the society has printed some incorrect information, especially all those years ago. The thing is, the light gets brighter and brighter. (then they'll quote a scripture which says that the light gets brighter until the day is firmly established). So therefore Jehovah is refining us and over the years the light has got brighter. So it doesn't matter what we printed before 1914 or whenever.

    Now this is false reasoning, but JWs use it all the time because they have to explain away some of the ridiculous things they've printed (for example, that God lives on star which they taught for over 60 years, or that immunisation is bad, or that organ transplants are cannibalism, they're just some examples).

    The fact is that the "light" isn't getting "brighter" - the "light" is blinking on and off and to be honest they haven't got a clue what actual "light" from God is.

    God doesn't change, but the Watchtower does. God's prophyseys do not fail, but the Watchtower's do. That should teach you a lot.

    Sirona

  • Confucious
    Confucious

    Scoobie,

    Like you, I was an adult when I started studying.

    And I didn't have any family in the JW.

    If you look back at some of my posts, you will see the profound pain that I feel.

    When I got onto this discussion board, I was amazed at how many people felt the same way as I did.

    Betrayed and hurt.

    Scooobie, my dear sister. Here is a nice litmus test...

    Tell several of the friends in private... "I've been on an ex-JW board on the Internet."

    Just tell them that.

    Here is what they will say, as I WAS ALSO trained to say the same thing...

    The will say, "Oh, you don't need to be looking at that. Those are just ex JW that are all bitter or just want to live an immoral life, etc."

    The reason why I say this, is NOW YOU can judge for yourself.

    WE here (90 percent of us anyway - *I think) are NOT hateful people.

    We are people that have been HURT by this so-called religion.

    Could you feel our pain???

    Confucious

  • Confucious
    Confucious

    Scoobie,

    Also Maverick said this...

    They have no issue with lying to you, stealing your children or mate from you or discarding you in the name of their god-like orginization.

    I know because it happened to me.

    Ok. Here's ANOTHER litmus test...

    Ask an elder what reasons would it be ok to get a divorce.

    The first answer is bibical and correct - adultery.

    Then they will add the NON-Biblical answer. A VERY FLEXIBLE - "spiritual endagerment."

    They might not say it at first, but ask them.

    It's a VERY flexible way of saying, "If you don't remain a JW, we'll tell your mate he/she has to split because YOU are a "spiritual endagerment" to the other."

    How convenient.

    Con

  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu

    Welcome to the forum, Scoobie! A lot of people have given you some great advice here. I left the JWs because I couldn't tolerate their lifestyle, going to meetings 3 times a week, door to door every weekend, studying the bible Watchtower publications, etc etc. I was told to throw out all my Led Zeppelin albums. Many children (as you may or may not have noticed) get beaten at the Kingdom Hall because they're expected to sit still for two hours straight.

    Anyway, I dare you to ask them if you can study one of their older publications. They'll tell you it's not a good idea, since many things have changed over the years. They're hiding their past. They're ashamed of their past. Armageddon was supposed to come in 1975.

    Anyway, I hope all goes well for you when (or if) you quit studying. They shouldn't be too hard on you, since you're not baptized yet. Just kindly let them know that this is not really for you. They'll try and convince you that you're making a big mistake, but they can't do shit since you're not baptized.

    Good luck.

  • micheal
    micheal

    The ratio of women to men among jw's is probably around 3:1, that is 3 women to every man. Added to this jw's are told to only marry other jw's. So that is why jw females marry so young, they don't want to be alone for the rest of their life. And that is why gorgeous jw females will marry an ugly guy because there just isn't that many jw guys around for them to choose from.

    I really feel sorry for them since the picking is rather few.

  • gypsywildone
    gypsywildone

    Those young woman that you see, that are very young to be in such serious relatinships in the first place, will sadly never reach their full potential. They sit next to some young guy a few too many times at a meeting, and find themselves engaged to someone nthey hardly know. They are raised to be "in subjection" to men, heavily discouraged from going to college, & never know what they might be capable of.

    I was only forced to go there from ages 13-15.5, but I saw a lot. It is a mind controlling cult that absolutely destroys families! Look around here at these people the watchtower so boldly slanders & calls names.

    See the people who have been forcibly separated from their parents & children by this cult. Read the experiences of those who were or had their children molested by jehovah's witnesses, then were pressurred to cover it up! Then decide if this is what you want for your children & yourself.

    And remember, anything that discourages you from RESEARCHING, anything that hides it's origins & practices, anything that has secret books that the general rank & file are not privy to, can't be what it purports to be.

    Do the research, do at least as much checking on the pros & cons that you would do when purchasing a car, or major appliance. You owe yourself & your family at least that!

  • scoobie
    scoobie

    I am not overly concerned about my husband's job. The owner of the company is very very NOT a JW. And he likes my husband. My husband is probly the only one that not only agrees with his political beilefs, but can actually engage in conversation and debate about it. So I really don't think he's going to have any job issues. Not to mention, there was a nother guy there that studied with the GM for a long time and then quit, and he still works there. That's not to say that the GM couldn't make my husband miserable at work.

    As for the encouraging divorce if one believes and the other doesn't. This was a fear of my husbands. That for me it would come down to a choice between my marraige or my religion. I assured him that it would not happen. I can't say that the JW's wouldn't make me choose. But in my opinion any religion that would make you choose church over your marriage is wrong. They are openly undermining what the bible says about marraige. As to the family and DF. I know that when someone is DF'd they are not allowed to associate with anyone but the elders. Is that right? And it was my concern, that just hypothetically...if my family and I did become baptized members, and my children as teens I guess did something wrong (or even as adults) that I would not be allowed to associate with them. It would seem to me, that it would be a time like that when a person needs their family and parents most. I had decided then and there that if the answer was yes, you would not be allowed to associate with your children if they are DF'd, that I would have to say no thanks. I will not turn my back on my children. We are all God's children, and we are told over and over that he will not turn his back on us. How then can we believe that he would expect us to do that to our own children? The answer I received of course, was no. I would not have to ignore my children. Is this true? If my child was ever DF'd would I still be allowed to associate with them?

    Other questions: 1.)What is dud or DUD?

    2.) I still don't understand or fully agree with the whole God's kingdom coming in

    1914 can anyone explain that theory? I am just finding it hard to grasp.

    it seems rather far fetched.

    They have done the math for me more than once and it's something I still don't get.

    3.)The "small flock" is something else I don't get. Some of us are going to heaven and some

    aren't? I can understand, grasp, and see in the bible that there is a good chance that we are

    not meant to live in heaven. But no one has been able to exlain to me how this "flock" knows

    that they are one of the one's going to heaven. The only explanation is that "they know" They

    can't explain how, they just know.

    4.) What are the views of sexual activity with in a marraige? And I know what some of you mean

    about the sex issues. We went to Kingsom Hall one Sunday and the topic of the disscussion

    was on fornication. They got very specific, talking about anal and oral sex. My children have

    NEVER heard those terms. I was cringing when they words actually came out of the mans

    mouth. I didn't want to have to esplain that to a 6 and 8 year old. They didn't ask. Honestly, I

    think the poor kids were clinging to the last threads of consciousness. Anyway...I came right

    out and asked. Because they made it sound as if any kind of sex other than good ole miss-

    ionary was wrong between a married couple. Is this true? I asked and they said no, they

    were just making a point that many kids today think that sex is intercourse, and that oral

    or anal sex are not included in fornication. I feel that what a couple does in the confines of

    their bedroom is nobody's business. So long as it's with each other, and there is no adultery

    abuse, or fornication being committed.

    Thanks,

    scoobie

  • mineralogist
    mineralogist

    Your 3rd question touches the legitimacy of having a handful men (not women!) giving out "bible based" knowledge. The small flock consists of "annointed" christians which are the ONLY ones who shall say

    We are all God's children

    This gate was closed 1935 so you CAN'T get a real personal relationship to god without those ~8000 of the little flock.

    All the other 6.4 million JWs are only called friend of Jehovah and will never be sure if to be saved or not - due to the princip "saved by works" i.e. preaching the "good news of the 1914 established kingdom".

    The problem with this arouse in early years when more and more became bible-students (the name before 1931) and the literal number 144,000 for the heaven - it just didn't fit anymore! So they invented two classes.

    [add: "they just know they go to heaven" is also the only explanation i got (and i believed)]

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Scoobie,

    Welcome to the board...DON'T SIGN ANYTHING YET!

    .)What is dud or DUD?
    Actually, it's DUB, short for Double U (W) from JW.

    2.) I still don't understand or fully agree with the whole God's kingdom coming in

    1914 can anyone explain that theory? I am just finding it hard to grasp.

    it seems rather far fetched.

    They have done the math for me more than once and it's something I still don't get.

    That's because you're an intelligent person. The belief is that Jesus returned to earth INVISIBLY in 1914, even though the bible CLEARLY tells us that on Jesus second coming EVERYBODY will know. The date was originally arrived at using some mental gymnastics and the length of one of the tunnels in the Great Pyramid....and an insistence of using the wrong date for the destruction of Jerusalem. It is rather far fetched, as is their insistence that in 1918 Jesus looked over all the churches in the world and appointed the JW's as HIS ORGANIZATION.

    3.)The "small flock" is something else I don't get. Some of us are going to heaven and some

    aren't? I can understand, grasp, and see in the bible that there is a good chance that we are

    not meant to live in heaven. But no one has been able to exlain to me how this "flock" knows

    that they are one of the one's going to heaven. The only explanation is that "they know" They

    can't explain how, they just know.

    You're accepting a JW premise here that just doesn't stand the test of scripture. Jesus went to PREPARE A PLACE FOR US so that where he is, we might be. In reality the "small flock" refered to the apostles, who at that time were indeed small in number. Then you do some scriptural gymnastics and go to another place in the bible to hear about the "other sheep" If you read that with the concept that Jesus came not only to the Jews, but to the Other Sheep of the gentile world...that scripture then makes more sense than the dubs do. Further...that same scripture goes on to say that there will be ONE FLOCK and ONE SHEPHERD...no where does the bible speak of two different salvations. ALL who trust in Jesus salvation are annointed and will join him in heaven...we also see in Revelations that God's very thrown will be in the New Jerusalim...where God is, there is heaven. Also note in Revelations that the Great Crowd, is before God's throne and therefore are ion heaven.

    4.) What are the views of sexual activity with in a marraige? And I know what some of you mean

    about the sex issues. We went to Kingsom Hall one Sunday and the topic of the disscussion

    was on fornication. They got very specific, talking about anal and oral sex. My children have

    NEVER heard those terms. I was cringing when they words actually came out of the mans

    mouth. I didn't want to have to esplain that to a 6 and 8 year old. They didn't ask. Honestly, I

    think the poor kids were clinging to the last threads of consciousness. Anyway...I came right

    out and asked. Because they made it sound as if any kind of sex other than good ole miss-

    ionary was wrong between a married couple. Is this true? I asked and they said no, they

    were just making a point that many kids today think that sex is intercourse, and that oral

    or anal sex are not included in fornication. I feel that what a couple does in the confines of

    their bedroom is nobody's business. So long as it's with each other, and there is no adultery

    abuse, or fornication being committed.

    This dear heart is a crock of B.S. from whoever said it was NOT true. The Society view both anal and oral sex, even within marriage, as sinful. Their enforcement of this varies from place to place and from time to time. There are people who have been DF'd for oral and or anal sex.

    Scoobie,

    Do a LOT of reading...look up the UN issues and the hypocrisy of the Society in that regards. Also...with all the money the Society takes in...where are it's charities? What do they do with all that money...and it's a LOT. Where are the JW food banks? Where are the JW hospitals and clinics? Where are the JW outreach programs...disaster relief programs, etc....I'll tell you where...THEY DON"T EXIST. Don't you find it strange that a group that claims to be God's organization on earth, isn't doing God's work?

    OH, I almost forgot, on this DF issue, yes, if one of your kids was DF'd and lived outside the house you would be expected to shun them...or if you were DF'd you kids would be expected to shun you. You personally would be marked in the congregation as a bad association because your husband isn't a JW.

    The LOVE BOMBING you're getting right now...that will come to an end...trust me.

    You'll be expected later on to do this door to door ministry that the bible does NOT talk about and turn in a time card for the amount of time you spend doing this.. THIS will be the sole judge by the elders of your spiritual worthiness. You will NEVER be doing enough...even if you're putting in 75 hours a month...you'll always be pushed to "do more" even though the members of the Governing Body do NOT go door to door..(do as I say, not as I do).

    WARNING: If you suspect one of your children were molested by a JW in good standing but don't have two witnesses to the abuse YOU will be in trouble if you try to warn other JW's about it...and in some cases if you go to the police. Ask around on this board, it's happened. The whole reason my wife is no longer a JW started with the issue of the Elders being told of an abuse case and restricting the family from warning others or going to the police because there were not two witnesses to the abuse. (When does an abuser EVER have two witnesses?) Even after the police arrested the man, and the kid he sexually assaulted was seen in the KH with the bruises and bite marks visible, the man was not DF'd...no two witnesses.

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