Not a Jehovah's Witness, but studying.

by scoobie 153 Replies latest members private

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Not enough to make it worthwhile Scoobie.

    I accept the Trinity because the ancient Fathers did, and the scritpures point to it. John 1:1 is NOT translated correctly in the NWT.

    In the Catholic Church the idea of a FIRE AND BRIMSTONE hell has been morphed into understanding that hell is simply existence without the love of God...which is unimaginably more horrifying than a fire and brim stone hell. Worse yet, those in hell WANT to be there and CHOOSE to be there.

    Paradise on earth? Nope, literally heaven on earth maybe, but the JW version makes Jesus promise of going to prepare a place for us meaningless.

  • kls
    kls

    No i don't believe in anything they say, it is all made up by a bunch of old farts and the supposed annointed. They can show no proof of these things except in their own wrightings.

  • shamus
    shamus
    How do I, or we I should say...tactfully explain that we are no longer intersted. They have spent much time studying with us. Our children are class mates and friends........though I'm sure they won't be allowed to be friends if we say we don't want to study. The books they have given us. I can't give half of them back, as they have been written in.

    A) Tell them no more studies, no if and's or but's about it. Tell them the truth. They will 'chastise' you for going to apostate websites. Well, tha'ts okay... I'm not disfellowshipped for 'apostasy' yet....

    B) Throw the books in the trash.

    C) The kids. Of course they won't be allowed to assosiate with your pagan kids! (think I'm stretching the truth? Anyone not in they're 'religion' is "pagan". Welcome to the pagan club!) Generally, witness 'friends' are not really friends at all.

    They sure seem nice, don't they? It sounds like the 'love bombing' has taken you aback a bit. Don't be fooled. If you were foolish enough to get baptized, you would see just how horrible these people really are. They can turn love on and off like a light switch.

    Personally, I don't let others control me with emotion. They will certainly use that on you.

    I threw five huge boxes of books on they're doorstep years ago. If I could do it again, I would have burnt them.

  • shamus
    shamus

    Oh, do I believe any of they're teachings?

    Not one.

    They're own bible is flawed; a 'conversation stopper' I encountered in 'field service' . They're bible is one of the most criticized out there!

    Don't be fooled. Check out the links on the board.

  • XQsThaiPoes
    XQsThaiPoes

    *** w99 11/1 pp. 28-29 Questions From Readers ***

    Questions

    From Readers

    How

    do Jehovah?s Witnesses view voting?

    There are clear principles set out in the Bible that enable servants of God to take a proper view of this matter. However, there appears to be no principle against the practice of voting itself. For example, there is no reason why a board of directors should not take a vote in order to arrive at decisions affecting their corporation. Congregations of Jehovah?s Witnesses often make decisions about meeting times and the use of congregation funds by voting with a show of hands.

    What, though, of voting in political elections? Of course, in some democratic lands, as many as 50 percent of the population do not turn out to vote on election day. As for Jehovah?s Witnesses, they do not interfere with the right of others to vote; neither do they in any way campaign against political elections. They respect and cooperate with the authorities who are duly elected in such elections. (Romans 13:1-7) As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah?s Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State. (Matthew 22:21; 1 Peter 3:16) In making this personal decision, the Witnesses consider a number of factors.

    First, Jesus Christ said of his followers: "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world." (John 17:14) Jehovah?s Witnesses take this principle seriously. Being "no part of the world," they are neutral in the political affairs of the world.?John 18:36.

    Second, the apostle Paul referred to himself as an "ambassador" representing Christ to the people of his day. (Ephesians 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:20) Jehovah?s Witnesses believe that Christ Jesus is now the enthroned King of God?s heavenly Kingdom, and they, like ambassadors, must announce this to the nations. (Matthew 24:14; Revelation 11:15) Ambassadors are expected to be neutral and not to interfere in the internal affairs of the countries to which they are sent. As representatives of God?s heavenly Kingdom, Jehovah?s Witnesses feel a similar obligation not to interfere in the politics of the countries where they reside.

    A third factor to consider is that those who have a part in voting a person into office may become responsible for what he does. (Compare 1 Timothy 5:22, The New English Bible.) Christians have to consider carefully whether they want to shoulder that responsibility.

    Fourth, Jehovah?s Witnesses greatly value their Christian unity. (Colossians 3:14) When religions get involved in politics, the result is often division among their members. In imitation of Jesus Christ, Jehovah?s Witnesses avoid becoming involved in politics and thus maintain their Christian unity.?Matthew 12:25; John 6:15; 18:36, 37.

    Fifth and finally, their keeping out of politics gives Jehovah?s Witnesses freeness of speech to approach people of all political persuasions with the important message of the Kingdom.?Hebrews 10:35.

    In view of the Scriptural principles outlined above, in many lands Jehovah?s Witnesses make a personal decision not to vote in political elections, and their freedom to make that decision is supported by the law of the land. What, though, if the law requires citizens to vote? In such a case, each Witness is responsible to make a conscientious, Bible-based decision about how to handle the situation. If someone decides to go to the polling booth, that is his decision. What he does in the polling booth is between him and his Creator.

    The November 15, 1950, issue of The Watchtower, on pages 445 and 446, said: "Where Caesar makes it compulsory for citizens to vote . . . [Witnesses] can go to the polls and enter the voting booths. It is here that they are called upon to mark the ballot or write in what they stand for. The voters do what they will with their ballots. So here in the presence of God is where his witnesses must act in harmony with his commandments and in accordance with their faith. It is not our responsibility to instruct them what to do with the ballot."

    What if a Christian woman?s unbelieving husband insists that she present herself to vote? Well, she is subject to her husband, just as Christians are subject to the superior authorities. (Ephesians 5:22; 1 Peter 2:13-17) If she obeys her husband and goes to the polling booth, that is her personal decision. No one should criticize her.?Compare Romans 14:4.

    What of a country where voting is not mandated by law but feelings run high against those who do not go to the voting booth?perhaps they are exposed to physical danger? Or what if individuals, while not legally obliged to vote, are severely penalized in some way if they do not go to the polling booth? In these and similar situations, a Christian has to make his own decision. "Each one will carry his own load."?Galatians 6:5.

    There may be people who are stumbled when they observe that during an election in their country, some Witnesses of Jehovah go to the polling booth and others do not. They may say, ?Jehovah?s Witnesses are not consistent.? People should recognize, though, that in matters of individual conscience such as this, each Christian has to make his own decision before Jehovah God.?Romans 14:12.

    Whatever personal decisions Jehovah?s Witnesses make in the face of different situations, they take care to preserve their Christian neutrality and freeness of speech. In all things, they rely on Jehovah God to strengthen them, give them wisdom, and help them avoid compromising their faith in any way. Thus they show confidence in the words of the psalmist: "You are my crag and my stronghold; and for the sake of your name you will lead me and conduct me."?Psalm 31:3. altFrom Our Readers (Awake! July 8 2004)

    Piñatas I read with interest the article ?The Piñata - An Ancient tradition? (September 22, 2003) I t left me with some questions. The ties to false religion are well-documented. But the article seemed to take the position that as long as it doesn?t bother someone?s conscience, it is OK. What about birthdays and holidays such as Christmas? SW., USA

    ?Awake!? responds: Christians refrain from any celebrations or customs that continue to involve false religious beliefs or activities that violate Bible principles. Foe example, the Bible definitely puts birthdays celebrations in a bad light. (Genesis 40:2; Matthew 14: 6 - 10) However, if it is very obvious that a custom has no current false religious significance and involves no violation of Bible principles, each Christian must make a personal decision as to whether he will follow such a custom.

  • RandomTask
    RandomTask
    And btw the watchtower changed the stance on voting and birthdays/holidays but the JWs are feeling stubborn to practice the changes

    XQ is mistaken. Just because they changed on pinatas does not mean that they have changed with birthdays and holidays. I can assure you there has been no doctinal change on these issues with JW, just more hypocricy in the allowing of some things that might have pagan roots (wedding rings?, now pinatas) and then turning around and not allowing other things. ANd then birthdays, which they really don't have a good reason for, but they will disfellowship you if you celebrate them.

    As far as voting, because in some countries witnesseses have had a hard time because they were previously not allowed to do what is like registering to vote in this country, they have allowed people to register as a "conscience matter". This does not mean that they are condoning the act of voting. In the US, it really serves no purpose to register to vote, in other countries this has other signifigance that some witnesses were being persecuted for.

    I think that it is important that you get ACCURATE information regarding the JW's as you endeavor to make a good decision for you and your family. If you were to tell them that you were doing outside research on them and their religion and were coming up with challenging questions for them then they will most likely tell you not to do any research outside of their publications and that anyone you talk to is bitter or trying to make a name out of themselves because of a prideful attitude. Do you trust any religion that discourages you to look at any source for information other than their own?

    Another issue is that they have elevated their publications, including books and magazines, over the bible itself. Study of just the bible without the benefit of their literature is questioned and discouraged. And independent study away from one of their members is discouraged. All the more reason to be wary of these people.

    Like others have said, Jehovahs Witnesses in general are not BAD PEOPLE, but we just feel that they are misled. And they want you to be misled too. Their beliefs tell them that you should put their religion above even your own family, this certainly is not harmonious with a God of love. I think that it is good that you have a spiritual interest for you and your family, its healthy to do so. But with so many religions out there that teach different beliefs, choosing the Jehovahs Witness religion will probably not be very fulfilling. Their entire concentration is not on spirituality, but works: going to meetings, going out in service, following the "rules", keeping your mouth shut and your eyes closed and just following along.

    If you are aking personally what I believe, I will tell you that I don't believe that the bible is the inspired word of God, but I don' t fault you if you do believe this. Personally, I find the bible to be very illogical, but when one has faith in certain things then it is impossible to argue with such faith. I think every person does have a spiritual need and they fill this in many different ways. If you feel the need to believe in Christian religion, then I can find no fault in that, because I am merely just another person, no greater than you are and no more able to make up your mind for you than anyone else, but you.

    I guess my advice would be to keep feeding your spiritual need, but do research on many Christian religions. There is no need to believe in hellfire if you don't believe a loving God would do that to people. I don't believe he would either, but it doesn't mean I have to be a JW to believe that way. There are plenty of Christian religions that give you the freedom to interpret the bible in your own way. In the end, you would find the JW's to be just as dogmatic and a good boy network as the Baptists are. The things you have said about the baptists reminded me plenty of my experience as a JW.

    I am glad that you have come here to actually talk to people with experience. No one here would, or at least should ever shun you, no matter what you believe. We all believe different things and sometimes even argue about them, but that is part of the greatness of being an individual. Call it "gods gift to mankind". Why would you want to associate yourself with a religion that seeks to block us from enjoying the gifts of reason, critical thinking and philosophy that God has bestowed upon us?

    Dont feel obligated to the people who are studying with you. I am sure they are very nice people and have treated you well, but I would wonder how they would treat you if you were to kindly refuse to continue studying, but still reach out a hand of friendship to them? Your husband's boss seems reasonable, but his wife seems bound and determined to do what most JW treasure, bring another person or persons into the flock. It is a very prestigious thing for a witness to be able to do this and quite rare in the US these days.

    So, I hope you find what you are looking for and I hope you are able to get enough research done so that you can do the right think, which is whatever you think you should do.

    Take care!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Welcome, scoobie. You seem to be a person who wants a well-ordered religion that makes sense. I can understand how the Watchower Society can be attractive, for that reason. I also notice that you tend to take information at face value; both the misinformation you had about the witnesses, and about the information you are receiving about the society from it's members.

    I am glad that your instincts are alert to the odd uniformity of perception, dress, behavior at the Kingdom Hall. This is no accident. If you remain with them, you will become just like them.

    Why not broaden your spiritual exploration? You might enjoy this little survey:

    http://selectsmart.com/RELIGION/

    If you DO take the test, I would be curious to know which religion the computer chose for you!

  • scoobie
    scoobie

    There is just so much information my brain starts to cry.

    I do want a well organized religion. One that has answers to my questions rather than "just have faith" The JW's seemed to have that. I have learned a great deal while studying with them. Things that I looked up in my bible to verify....like angels coming down on earth to have "relations" with women. When they said that I knew they were so way off. So I smugly looked it up in my bible, and sure enough, there is was. Even in my bible what I have read leads me to believe that God, Jesus and the holy spirit are not all one. The hell thing I''m still not sure of. I can't prove their bible right or wrong against mine in that regard. Mine says hell through out. Though the notion of a burning lake of fire and people being tormented there for eternity never really made sense to me. The paradise on earth...that's iffy too. I can see in spots in my bible were it seems to agree with that. And yet other spots where it doesn't. The result across the board though is eternal life........somewhere. John 3:16 in my bible says for God so loved the world he gave his only son that who ever should believe in him would have everlasting life. It's doesn't say where. Which leads me to wonder, well......if there is a hell, where you suffer for eternity......isn't that everlasting life too? If you suffer, that would imply that you can feel, which would imply that you are living eternally. It's just not where we hope to live for eternity. As to scare tactics used against children. I was raised Southern Baptist......and for all the sinning that goes on in that religion...they sure scare the hell out of it's young ones. I was convinced I would burn in hell for just about everything. Couldn't say Gosh, Golly or Gee, because they were somehow related to using God's name in vain.

    I have taken some computer test before and the religion it picked out for me was Unitarian Universalist. No thanks. I have been to a wedding at one of those churches, and can't say as I agree with allowing lesbian ministers. I have nothing against people who are homosexual. But is says in the bible that it's wrong. I don't think being homosexual is wrong, but acting on those urges is. Just like being a horny teenager isn't wrong, but having sex before marraige is. I am speaking of bible terms now, not my own. God knows I have done plenty in my life and am no one to sit in judgement of others.

  • scoobie
    scoobie

    Ok that thing said I was a 100% Match with the Mormon religion, and 89% with the JW's. I have talked to some people that were Mormons and they make JW's look normal.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    A quick note on the slippery logic the Witnesses are using on you. Please separate Bible concepts from "common sense" concepts.

    If you have established that you do want to live by the Bible, all of it, then accept all of it. Even if it doesn't make sense. For example, a place of eternal fire has been reserved for the devil and his cohorts. You can't wish that bible verse away, even if you are uncomfortable with it. You are probably familiar with the bible verse that says that only God may be worshipped. Yet the angels worship Jesus. So what is Jesus; God, a god, or a man, worshipped? The devil tried that and was cursed.

    Have you wondered why the Witnesses are so hung up on Paradise? Because their doctrine hangs on it. Back in 1847, their leader decided only 144,000 had rights to heaven. That idea comes from a single verse in Revelation. How many times did Jesus speak of the Kingdom of Heaven? Was he really only speaking to a future group of 144,000 people, excluding the billions who live today?

    If you prefer common sense over verses in the Bible, then admit this to yourself and live sensibly. The Jehovah's Witnesses have many "common sense" rules that are not covered in the bible, such as forbidding smoking. A clue that they are going to bring up a non-bible-inspired doctrine, is that they will ask if the idea "makes sense".

    I still maintain there is a safer religion out there than the Witnesses. How about the Seventh Day Adventists, or the Bible Students?

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