Scholar and Fisherman (page 2)

Fisherman

1 Active and believe

2 same answer as scholar

As scholar pointed out, it is not a pointless debate. The word pointed occurs 2x in the Bible 1: In Ezekiel when Nebuchanezzar resorts to uncanny power using a liver and God causes it to point to Jerusalem at the fork on the road. 2. Jesus reference to pointed stakes surrounding Jerusalem in prophecy was also an allusion to the first destruction. Also, 1914, the Parousia, The appointed times of the nations, the establishment of God’s kingdom in the heavens are all based on the date of the destruction of Jerusalem in BCE.

Jorden

Jesus reference to pointed stakes surrounding Jerusalem in prophecy was also an allusion to the first destruction. Also, 1914, the Parousia, The appointed times of the nations, the establishment of God’s kingdom in the heavens are all based on the date of the destruction of Jerusalem in BCE.

Fisherman, thank you for that reply. I have much to say about that and these questions will tie into what you said there. Can you answer these 3 questions:

1. Can you tell me what is this verse describing and if it has been fulfilled yet?

[Joel 3: 2 I will also collect together all the nations and bring them down to the low plain of Je·hoshʹa·phat; and I will put myself on judgment with them there on account of my people and my inheritance Israel, whom they scattered among the nations; and they apportioned out my own land.]

2. Can you tell me if according to the Scriptures, are the trumpets blown in chronological order and if the 42-months take place during the 6th trumpet and are part of what is called the 2nd woe?

[Revelation 8:7 And the first one blew his trumpet.]
[Revelation 8:8 And the second angel blew his trumpet]
[Revelation 8:10 And the third angel blew his trumpet]
[Revelation 8:12 And the fourth angel blew his trumpet]
[Revelation 8:13 And I saw, and I heard an eagle flying in midheaven say with a loud voice: “Woe, woe, woe to those dwelling on the earth because of the rest of the trumpet blasts of the three angels who are about to blow their trumpets!”]
[Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet.]
[Revelation 9:12 The one woe is past. Look! Two more woes are coming after these things.]
[Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel blew his trumpet.]
[Revelation 11:2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.]
[Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past. Look! The third woe is coming quickly.]
[Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet.]

3. Do you/JW's believe the 1,000 year reign began in 1918 and we are 105 years into it?

stan livedeath

i had asked Fisherman, on several previous threads, if he was / is a jw--never got an answer. So now we know.

ThomasMore

Scholar and Fisherman - my favorite apostates - are both on the fringes of JWdom, in that they debate on this forum, which is "verboten" to faithful JWs. I can only assume that neither believes in shunning or DFing since they spend a large amount of time associating with Inactive and DF'd human beings as they attempt to establish positions on WTC positions while dodging CSA and other issues where WTC is squarely in the wrong.

Let's break bread as soon as possible. But please, no weed or heavy drink, or kiddie porn - I am against that. Thanks for not offending my conscience.

Welcome to the world of apostasy fellows!!! All the best to you!

Jorden - question #4 - how did their elders respond when they learned that both brethren were regulars on this forum. They surely told them.

notsurewheretogo

Fisherman & Scholar.

Back in 2013, May 15th WT the society said:

Then in February 2017 they also said this:

How do you reconcile these two points as believing JW's? My questions are:

Q1) You are told to follow everything the GB says yet as the Feb 2017 WT says they can be wrong, thoughts?

Q2) The direction mentioned in the May 2013 WT is one of these things they could get wrong?

Q3) How can one follow obediently humans like the GB when they can be wrong?

Q4) How can they exact obedience when they can be wrong?

Q5) How does God view it when they are wrong? (I'll cite organ transplants as a doctrine that killed JW's but was wrong)

Q6) If one says these things are from Jehovah and they are wrong is that not very bad in God's eyes?

Q7) Has the GB ever said this, in that this is what God says then changed it?

I could go on and on.

I mean you believe and stand by 607 BCE despite the mass amount of evidence to the contrary but you are not going to change your mind on that subject but can you then answer the above questions?

How does any believing JW believe the GB are appointed by God to lead and be his representative when they admit and have shown they are clearly wrong in teachings, doctrine and policies YET still demand that you do everything they say no matter how crazy in the future it may seem.

Fisherman

they debate on this forum, which is "verboten" to faithful JWs.

I never would have even lurked sua sponte. I was hoodwinked in here by a trusted JW friend. Once inside what I read from the posters was very challenging at first. I hadn’t considered the logic and some posters were so funny I couldn’t stop laughing. I was very confrontational at first because what I read was so shocking but Simon tolerated it and kindly let me stay.

It ain’t the messenger, it is the message so the posted information either had basis or were lies and I couldn’t just pretend I didn’t read it so I had to in all fairness and objectivity investigate and get to the bottom of this to satisfy my mind. There are a lot of interesting discussions and information here so I stayed. My approach in this forum is not directly as a defense attorney of JW school of thought but as a truth finding forum publicly evaluating JW stuff and having fun having academic discussions with a lot of smart people about other stuff too. Some substances are a matter of fact others are interpretation of facts and others are beliefs or schools of thoughts. My school of thought is JW.

I view DF from the position of the heart of a father that wants his son back and not as an elder brother that competes. Or a penal code that is crafted to punish. Believe as you wish and leave me alone on how I like to practice JW religion. You don't like it, too bad is what I tell people when they start scrutinizing my JW conduct.

Jorden

I started this thread for the purpose of not hijacking any current ones. Can all other than Scholar and Fisherman refrain from posting at this time? (I am asking respectfully, not telling.) Look what has happen already, this thread has been derailed from what it was intended.

__________________________

Scholar and Fisherman can we start again from this point and only discuss what I am asking y'all...

Will one or both of you answer my 3 questions so that we can continue this discussion.

1. Can you tell me what Joel 3:2 is describing and if it has been fulfilled yet?

[Joel 3: 2 I will also collect together all the nations and bring them down to the low plain of Je·hoshʹa·phat; and I will put myself on judgment with them there on account of my people and my inheritance Israel, whom they scattered among the nations; and they apportioned out my own land.]

2. Can you tell me if according to the Scriptures in Rev below, are the trumpets blown in chronological order and if the 42-months take place during the 6th trumpet and are part of what is called the 2nd woe?

[Revelation 8:7 And the first one blew his trumpet.]
[Revelation 8:8 And the second angel blew his trumpet]
[Revelation 8:10 And the third angel blew his trumpet]
[Revelation 8:12 And the fourth angel blew his trumpet]
[Revelation 8:13 And I saw, and I heard an eagle flying in midheaven say with a loud voice: “Woe, woe, woe to those dwelling on the earth because of the rest of the trumpet blasts of the three angels who are about to blow their trumpets!”]
[Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet.]
[Revelation 9:12 The one woe is past. Look! Two more woes are coming after these things.]
[Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel blew his trumpet.]
[Revelation 11:2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.]
[Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past. Look! The third woe is coming quickly.]
[Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet.]

3. Do you/JW's believe the 1,000-year reign began in 1918 and we are 105 years into it?

lriddle80

I think JW think that they are in the true religion. So no matter what they are told to believe by the gb - they believe it because ultimately they don't care about actual truth. They are waiting for paradise, which they think they will earn by obeying the watchtower, which they think is basically the Bible and obeying the gb, who basically have said they may as well be Jesus. So, instead of obeying Jesus and the actual Bible, they are trusting in a religion and their own good works to save them and they give lip service to Jesus.

enoughisenough

Fisherman13 hours ago

I am a JW. I am convinced that God’s Holy Spirit is “operative” upon JW exclusively leading to the conclusion that JW is God’s agency.( to quote You ) If God's Holy Spirit is operating exclusively to the conclusion that JW is God's agency, why has God's Holy Spirit operated in such a way that false prophesies, ever changing lies, twisting of Scriptures and false doctrines were and are being published?-seeing how the Bible says God cannot lie and the Spirit is Holy . Also why would God's Holy Spirit operate in such a way so as the rank and file are to obey what the WT publishes instead of the Bible?

Fisherman

If God's Holy Spirit is operating exclusively to the conclusion that JW is God's agency, why has God's Holy Spirit operated in such a way that false prophesies, ever changing lies, twisting of Scriptures and false doctrines were and are being published?

I don’t see it that way. I have shared with you what I am personally convinced is true, not open to debate. You can believe different.

Scholar and Fisherman

Fisherman13 hours ago

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