Scholar and Fisherman

by Jorden 207 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Jorden
    Jorden
    what in your opinion exactly is Jerusalem? Is Revelation 11:2 referring to literal city? Or is it like JW suggesting some form of God's organization located all over the world?

    My thinking is when the time comes for the 42-months (Rev 11:5; 13:5) that is when the 'mark' will be given out. Use whatever term you want to here, Christians/Jehovah's people, they will have to refuse that 'mark'. Those that do that are whom/what Jerusalem/holy city/temple will prove to be.

    The trampling/tribulation/conquering/ruling over comes about on Christians/Jehovah's people by means of not having the 'mark' therefore can't buy/sell will be killed or taken into captivity. So, to answer your question, no literal city but because the majority of the people who refuse the 'mark' will be associated with some religion, then there will be literal attacks/confiscations of their properties/churches/kingdom halls, etc.

    48 However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made with hands,+ just as the prophet says

    24 The God who made the world and all the things in it, being, as he is, Lord of heaven and earth,+ does not dwell in handmade temples;+

    23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.+ 24 God is a Spirit,+ and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”+

    16 Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple+ and that the spirit of God dwells in you?+ 17 If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and you are that temple.+

    16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols?+ For we are a temple of a living God;+ just as God said: “I will reside among them+ and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”+

    21 In union with him the whole building, being harmoniously joined together,+ is growing into a holy temple for Jehovah.+ 22 In union with him you too are being built up together into a place for God to inhabit by spirit

    5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months.+ 6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemies+ against God to blaspheme his name and his dwelling place, even those residing in heaven.+ 7 It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them,+ and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue* and nation.

    9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.+ 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword,* he must be killed with the sword.+ This is where it calls for endurance+ and faith+ on the part of the holy ones.+

    2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city+ underfoot for 42 months.+

    9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation+ and will kill you,+ and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.+

    24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations;+ and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations* until the appointed times of the nations* are fulfilled.+

    [Joel 2: 17 “Between the porch and the altar let the priests, the ministers of Jehovah, weep and say, ‘Do feel sorry, O Jehovah, for your people, and do not make your inheritance a reproach, for nations to rule over them. Why should they say among the peoples: “Where is their God?”’]

    [Joel 3:1 “For, look! in those days and in that time, when I shall bring back the captive ones of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also collect together all the nations and bring them down to the low plain of Je·hoshʹa·phat; and I will put myself on judgment with them there on account of my people and my inheritance Israel, whom they scattered among the nations; and they apportioned out my own land.]

  • Person
    Person

    Thanks for that. So if I understand you correctly, the holy city of Jerusalem don't exist yet.? I am asking because as 3 last years clearly showed all Christian denominations, JW also, are under strong UN influence. I even thought that ceasing of public ministry by JW in march 2020 is the beginning of 1290 days from Daniel 12:11. But it turned to be false. Now I'm thinking, maybe God has his people in many diffrent religions not only among JW and they will be gathered in the future (Hagai 2:7)?

  • Person
    Person
    In regard to refusing the mark of the beast it doesn't look good, at least for people I know. They trust WHO (they received Vax) they even say that UN and Who are not a bad.l thing When I ask them about the mark they say "we are already controlled by government" or "we are already slaves to the goverment". Two of them are even elders so it's hard to imagine that majority of JW will refuse the mark.
  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    🤦‍♂️

  • Jorden
    Jorden
    the holy city of Jerusalem don't exist yet.?
    Now I'm thinking, maybe God has his people in many diffrent religions not only among JW and they will be gathered in the future

    Exactly my thoughts and what I tried hard to write out without actually saying it. It helps to get conformation to hear you say that on your own based on your own conclusion.

    But I am not saying that Jerusalem (Christians/Jehovah's people), don't exist yet, yes, they do now, I am just saying that when that time comes to take the 'mark' or not that that is when they will prove to be or not. But yes, Jehovah's people are not only among JW's as they claim. Jesus said the seed is sowed in the field and the field is the world. The field in not WTS, the WTS is in the world though same as all others. Wheat and weeds are all over. When the time comes for the 'mark' it will be given to ALL and ALL that take it will not prove to be Jehovah's people and those that refuse it will prove to be his. We can't judge anyone now, that's why Jesus said to just let the two grow together until that time.

  • Hacche
    Hacche

    Can someone please help me. I'm new here. I posted twice a few hours ago but when I went to post the third time it stayed on "Queuing processing". It would not post. Is there a limit to how many posts you can make in a day or have I beens blocked for breaking some kind of posting rule?

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun

    Jorden, here's some basics that helped me piece things together:

    Temple sanctuary = God's people (Rev. 11:1; cf. 1 Cor. 3:16, 17; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:21, 22; 1 Peter 2:4-8).

    Courtyard of temple = Includes dining rooms of priests (Rev. 11:2; cf. Ezek. 42:1).

    Leadership of God’s people (Matt. 19:28; 1 Pet. 2:9).

    Israel of God = God’s new nation (Gal. 6:15, 16).

    Jerusalem = Leadership of God's people as theocracy (temple situated on Mount Moriah, king’s residence on Mount Zion)

    Holy city = Jerusalem with temple: God’s people with their leaders (Rev. 11:2)

    Great city = world alienated from God (Rev. 11:8; cf. 16:19)

    42 months = second half of great tribulation (time, times and half a time = 1260 days = 3 1/2 years)

  • Simon
    Simon

    Jorden: posting the exact same things over and over doesn't make you convincing, it makes you a spammer. Fuck off.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit