Scholar and Fisherman

Jorden

Scholar and Fisherman, I started this thread because I didn't want to highjack the one in regard to 588/568.

I just wanted to ask if you were both current active JW's that believe the JW's beliefs?

Do y'all believe the GB are the F&DS?

If the answers are NO, then why do y'all defend so passionately the date 607?

If the answers are YES, then I have a few questions on JW's beliefs that I would like to ask y'all. If y'all are unable to defend these beliefs and find out that they are untrue, then maybe you will see that 607/587 debate it pointless.

scholar

Jorden

I just wanted to ask if you were both current active JW's that believe the JW's beliefs?

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Yes

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Do y'all believe the GB are the F&DS?

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The FDS is a parabolic statement as a part of an eschatological context that has application to all of Jesus' disciples both as a collective - community and as individuals which would include the leadership namely the GB.

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The 607/ 587 BC or more accurately the 607/587/586 BC debate is very important for it involves Bible Chronology and its relationship to Eschatology and Prophecy. The evidence from both biblical and secular sources such as Jewish history, NB history and chronology including its astronomical records proves that 607 BE is the date for the Fall of Jerusalem during the reigns of the Judean monarch, King Zedekiah and the Babylonian King, Nebuchadnezzar.

scholar JW

Jorden

The 607/ 587 BC or more accurately the 607/587/586 BC debate is very important for it involves Bible Chronology and its relationship to Eschatology and Prophecy.

587/586 is not really debatable, the one-year discrepancy comes about based on whether the accession or regnal year is being used to count from. Regardless, as to Bible prophecy and JW's 607 is only important because of their 1914 teaching. That being the case, if all that is said in connection with the 1914 teaching is false then 607 should not matter to JW's.

So, if you are an active JW and you are knowledgeable of their beliefs and if you are a honest person then answer some questions I have and see where it leads.

[9-1-15 WT – Would you like to receive truthful answers to your questions about Jehovah’s Witnesses? We encourage you to turn to the most knowledgeable source—Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves,]

[10-1-14 WT – Do you have a particular Bible subject that you have wondered about? Are you curious about any of the beliefs or religious practices of Jehovah’s Witnesses? If so, do not hesitate to ask one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. He or she will be pleased to discuss such matters with you.]

So to start with:

1. Can you tell me what is this verse describing and if it has been fulfilled yet?

[Joel 3: 2 I will also collect together all the nations and bring them down to the low plain of Je·hoshʹa·phat; and I will put myself on judgment with them there on account of my people and my inheritance Israel, whom they scattered among the nations; and they apportioned out my own land.]

2. Can you tell me if according to the Scriptures, are the trumpets blown in chronological order and if the 42-months take place during the 6th trumpet and are part of what is called the 2nd woe?

[Revelation 8:7 And the first one blew his trumpet.]
[Revelation 8:8 And the second angel blew his trumpet]
[Revelation 8:10 And the third angel blew his trumpet]
[Revelation 8:12 And the fourth angel blew his trumpet]
[Revelation 8:13 And I saw, and I heard an eagle flying in midheaven say with a loud voice: “Woe, woe, woe to those dwelling on the earth because of the rest of the trumpet blasts of the three angels who are about to blow their trumpets!”]
[Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel blew his trumpet.]
[Revelation 9:12 The one woe is past. Look! Two more woes are coming after these things.]
[Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel blew his trumpet.]
[Revelation 11:2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.]
[Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past. Look! The third woe is coming quickly.]
[Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet.]

3. Do you/JW's believe the 1,000 year reign began in 1918 and we are 105 years into it?

scholar

Jorden

587/596 is not really debatable, the one-year discrepancy comes about based on whether the accession or regnal year is being used to count from. Regardless, as to Bible prophecy and JW's 607 is only important because of their 1914 teaching. That being the case, if all that is said in connection with the 1914 teaching is false then 607 should not matter to JW's--

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The said scholar disagrees. The debate concerning 586 or 587 BCE is very important especially when WT critics are critical of 607 BCE as an inaccurate date for the Fall of Jerusalem. Chronology if possible demands precision and JW's have for many decades presented to the scholarly community a precise date-607 BCE.

scholar JW

Fisherman

I am a JW. I am convinced that God’s Holy Spirit is “operative” upon JW exclusively leading to the conclusion that JW is God’s agency. I also believe that 607 BCE is the date of destruction of Jerusalem. That is my personal belief and conclusion based upon personal study and understanding of the Bible. It is a matter of fact that JW have abandoned past teachings such as all of the anointed make up the FDS, a yomg universe and earth and other teachings but that doesn’t un-convince me that God is with and backs up JW. Jesus said: “ Nobody comes to the Father except through me!” That is to say, Christianity, JW religion. What JW individuals experience is a relationship with God (sooner or later) The role of JW I believe is to help bring people to God and get to the point of a relationship with God. God is using the JW organization to do that. That is what I believe. There is a human element in all of this and sin and propensities and that causes a lot of problems but nothing can un-convince that the org has God’s backing and one’s relationship with God, even if you get into trouble or get angry or if teachings change because it is about your relationship with God in your life. Nothing else is important. You are just waiting for God to take action and bring relief. Sadly there are problems inside JW religion same as in Jesus’s day. JW, at least me isn’t looking foward to see people’s demise at the great tribulation, hopefully pe JW will help people find God and can say. Done everything I could. That’s what I think JW is about. Sadly a lot of JW have good reasons to get angry and as a result leave.

joey jojo

Jorden
if you are an active JW and you are knowledgeable of their beliefs and if you are a honest person

Theres your problem right there. For a JW to be loyal, they have to be dishonest.

I still believe scholar might be trolling us though.

Jorden

The debate concerning 586 or 587 BCE is very important

I did not say it was not important, I said it was not debatable because the discrepancy arises on whether the accession or regnal year is being used to count from. But let us not get into discussing that here and focus only on the 3 questions I asked you. That is the reason why I open this new thread.

So, what do you say in response to the questions?

Jorden

I am a JW. I am convinced that God’s Holy Spirit is “operative” upon JW exclusively leading to the conclusion that JW is God’s agency.

Fisherman, thank you for your sharing your thought. Based on what you said are you willing to address my first 3 questions?

scholar

Jorden

I did not say it was not important, I said it was not debatable because the discrepancy arises on whether the accession or regnal year is being used to count from. But let us not get into discussing that here and focus only on the 3 questions I asked you. That is the reason why I open this new thread.

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It remains even today a much-vexed problem for Christendom's chronologists.

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So, what do you say in response to the questions?

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Your questions are nonsensical!

scholar JW

Jorden

Your questions are nonsensical!

nonsensical - having no meaning; making no sense

How is it that they have no meaning making no sense? These questions are based on JW teachings/beliefs. You as a JW should know about them. Are you willing to answer them or not?

Scholar and Fisherman

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