Was this right? Cedars threatens, what say you?

by Hadriel 177 Replies latest members adult

  • Hadriel
    Hadriel

    So as some of you know, I've made no secrets about it, I've been assisting the copyright holder of Crisis of Conscience remove infringers around the web. Many have in fact been removed with more to come.

    If you're antsy you can skip to the question below however I'd appreciate it if you continue reading first!

    There are a couple reasons I decided to do this. First of which the copyright holder warrants it. She is a very honest and caring person who was extremely close to Ray & Cynthia Franz. She and Cynthia were about as close to sisters as you can come without arriving via the same womb.

    I can attest to the fact that she in no way is setting up for a money grab here. It couldn't be further from the truth. So for all those insisting this is the motivation please appreciate that I would NOT be involved if that were the case. I'm also getting zero out of it nor am I asking for anything in return. Zero zilch.

    Bottom line this book mans a ton to many. It is very important. Due to its importance it's longevity and availability are paramount as you might imagine. In order for it to be available it costs money. It's as simple as that. You can't maintain copyright attorneys, cover printing costs, general business costs along with a slew of other ancillary costs without some sort of revenue. You can say what you will be anyone in business will tell you the same.

    Additionally, if you want to provide other translations or audio versions of the book those also have hard tangible dollars attached. You also have costs in re-editing where for example dates are involved. If a sentence reads "in the last 12 years" for example it may need to be changed to "in the last 19 years" as it has been since 2008 when COC was last published. Not saying this sentence exists just using this as an example of something that gets re-edited over time within books in general.

    The bottom line preventing others from infringing (which is a right of the copyright holder obviously) is an important part of the picture. In order to do the above mentioned extras and maintain the book's availability in perpetuity it is hyper critical that it generates some revenue.

    A few weeks ago I had an exchange with Lloyd Evans about promoting illegal bootleg copies of Crisis of Conscience on YouTube. I repeatedly offered to work with him in the future but in the interest of doing the right thing for now I asked that he remove that portion of the video. Subsequently there was a long list of threats from him. Honestly I was in shock as Lloyd comes off so much different in his videos.

    After repeated attempts and several threats by him it went no where. It was obvious that Lloyd had this "how dare I ask" attitude even though he was clearly promoting an illegal copy of the book.

    Although he ended up giving away a legitimate copy of the book (I have no way knowing if that's actually happened other than his word) so he says, the reality is his video promotes the availability of a bootleg illegal copy of Crisis of Conscience. I've held off on pushing the issue with YouTube but I'm about to engage with them on this issue.

    I want to be clear I have no agenda here. I wish Lloyd no ill will even though he threatened me many times. I'm seeking to find out what the masses actually feel on the matter. The infighting that I've seen in my opinion helps no one. It only gives those that have left a bad name and a reason for those in to point the finger. I would like nothing more than for everyone to work together amicably.

    Again looking for honest evaluation rather than picking sides.

    So the questions are:

    Where do you stand? Do you think it is O.K. to promote bootleg copies of Crisis of Conscience? If yes, explain.

    Since Ray Franz charged for the book himself so as to maintain and promote the book, is it not O.K. for the new copyright holder in which he entrusted this work to do the same? If no, explain.

    Should the correspondence between Lloyd and I be posted publicly?

    As a reminder PLEASE keep your comments respectful and within the guidelines of this forum.

  • Hadriel
    Hadriel
    ...change to more accurate title.
  • the girl next door
    the girl next door

    This is like Clinton's emails. Pretty much everyone is sick of hearing about it. And specifically Lloyd Evens(John Cedars) role in it. Seems like stirring the pot to me. Dykstra promised legitimate copies of COC soon. My prediction that they would not be forthcoming in a timely fashion is proving to be true.

    Free PDF copies of COC will continue to be spread in full force despite what any of us personally feel about the practice.

    Of course a copyright holder should be able to make a profit on the work.

    No, your correspondence is hear say. It would be prudent to avoid posting.

  • Hadriel
    Hadriel
    Dykstra promised legitimate copies of COC soon. My prediction that they would not be forthcoming in a timely fashion is proving to be true.

    Actually no it is progressing along nicely and in a timely manner. Only here recently after the limbo imposed by the copyright transfer could she event proceed so your statement wouldn't be accurate however I can see where it might seem that way.

    This is like Clinton's emails. Pretty much everyone is sick of hearing about it. And specifically Lloyd Evens(John Cedars) role in it. Seems like stirring the pot to me

    Not at all the intent. Genuinely curious how the masses see it.

    Free PDF copies of COC will continue to be spread in full force despite what any of us personally feel about the practice

    I'm decent at what I do, lots of DMCA's to YouTube and ISPs already. it will be increasingly more difficult to obtain such illegal PDFs as time goes on here.

    No, your correspondence is hear say. It would be prudent to avoid posting.

    Yep I agree however it is not if both agree to posting it. I'm game!

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow

    Hadriel, the part of your post that I find disturbing is this:

    "Subsequently there was a long list of threats from him."

    Depending on what those threats consist of, uttering threats can range from being a gross misdemeanor to being a felony.

    Please define what you mean by "threats".

    Claims of threatening behaviour are disconserting.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Do you think it is O.K. to promote bootleg copies of Crisis of Conscience? If yes, explain.

    NO!..

    Since Ray Franz charged for the book himself so as to maintain and promote the book, is it not O.K. for the new copyright holder in which he entrusted this work to do the same? If no, explain.

    Yes..

    Should the correspondence between Lloyd and I be posted publicly?

    Talk to Simon..

  • berrygerry
    berrygerry

    Yep I agree however it is not if both agree to posting it. I'm game!

    What is the point?

    (This is supposed to be a discussion forum - you need to wait for next Festivus for the Airing of the Grievances)

  • talesin
    talesin

    Where do you stand? Do you think it is O.K. to promote bootleg copies of Crisis of Conscience? If yes, explain. NO.

    Since Ray Franz charged for the book himself so as to maintain and promote the book, is it not O.K. for the new copyright holder in which he entrusted this work to do the same? If no, explain. YES

    Should the correspondence between Lloyd and I be posted publicly? NO - talk to the police if appropriate,

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow

    Sorry, Hadriel, I didn't answer your questions about the copyright.

    Ditto to what Talesin posted.

  • Listener
    Listener

    Printing and selling a bootleg copy of the book is not nice.

    I don't really know what you are achieving by sending out warnings to infringers around the net but you're going to upset someone.

    There is/was a Youtuber that provided the book in oral form and that would be disappointing to see go. I can't seem to find it on Youtube. I am very surprised that the owner would have a problem with that.

    I would love to see the correspondence between Lloyd and you, you should ask him if he gives permission for you to do this. Surely he has no reason to object.

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