It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened 11530 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • pr0ner

    @DerekMoors Very interesting legal theory with regards to witness tampering. I'd think it wouldn't be a crime until someone is an actual witness in a living case. Because the "tampering" is done to affect the trial, not the crime. At this point, he's simply asked that there be a trial.

    If he were some hated public figure I'd think the government could for sure go for extortion. In our case, I think it's a very big legal hill to climb. Their claim will be that they were simply requesting damages be paid. Not worth the government's time. Just like if Lloyd's legal team(?) got some sympathetic prosecutor no way the case gets cleared up the ladder. For both financial and jurisdictional reasons.

    Interesting to think about but will probably never happen.

  • ForeverAlone

    He confessed to a crime(s) that was broadcast for the whole world to see. Anyone that has internet that is. I think that he better tread very carefully when dealing with the legal system in any matter. If he shoves anymore those people have ammo to use and will be willing and able to use it.

    You hear that, Lloyd? Fuck off!!!

  • DerekMoors
    Because the "tampering" is done to affect the trial, not the crime. At this point, he's simply asked that there be a trial.

    I wasn't meaning Lloyd's legal case; I'm saying that if Lloyd were ever arrested for soliciting prostitutes, Kim could be considered a witness in that case since she's the one he confessed to.

    So, could a case be made that this lawyer is aiding Lloyd in potential witness tampering or intimidation or whatever, threatening them with legal action unless they shut up about his crime?

    I don't know the legalities but if I got a letter from Lloyd's lawyer (and let's not kid ourselves into thinking he has a legal "team," that's another of his pompous lies) I'd be writing back to the lawyer something to that effect. "Your client admitted publicly to committing a crime and now you're trying to silence witnesses to his confession. That's witness intimidation. Either rescind your letter or I report you to [whatever is the equivalent of the American Bar Association]."

    Again I'm no lawyer but since when can you tell people who are witnesses to someone's confession of a crime to shut up, and demand money from them? It just sounds not only illogical but illegal.

  • Vintage

    Marc (of Marc and Cora) took all the evidence of a "Lloyd Evans crime" that had been made available to him and then presented it to the police in the UK. He posted, informing us of this action he had taken, earlier in this thread.

    Criminals are often caught and convicted of crimes they have committed because they get careless and brag to others about what they've done. Other times, a person commits a crime, feels bad about what they have done, and unburdens themselves by confessing their crime to another person. In the first instance, the person who confesses to having committed a crime is proud of himself. In the second instance, the person who confesses to having commited a crime is remorseful. Either way, they can be convicted of whatever crime they confess they have committed. The judge may be lenient in the sentencing phase if the convicted person is remorseful.

    P.S. I realize you are talking about yet another possible crime, Derek. I didn't mean to derail the discussion of the possiblity that L.E.'s attorney may have committed the crime of extortion on Evans' behalf. The lunacy is that the lawyer's case for Evans goes like this: Unless you pay me, I will sue you for repeating my confession of a crime to other people. And, BTW, yes, I did what I confessed to you.

  • pr0ner

    @DerekMoors How I understand it (also not a lawyer), is there can't be tampering if there isn't a trial. They would have to actually charge him with a crime first, then he would need to put pressure on Kim to recant, fail to answer or change her testimony. That's when it becomes tampering and not before the criminal is charged with the crime. What you're saying is criminal coercion. Not sure if Croatia has a law on this.

    Interestingly enough I've always wondered if an AG in the US could launch a case against WTBS charging them with criminal coercion on the state level for covering up child sex abuse. It would be pretty easy to get a jury to dislike WTBS. If they showed up and seized documents and servers it would probably be a treasure trove for investigators.

  • TonusOH

    We should keep in mind that there are issues of jurisdiction that apply to many of the possible actions being considered. Evans's criminal complaint will almost certainly be dismissed because the law doesn't apply to the seven, since they did not do anything (much less anything illegal) on Croatian soil, and the crime of insult is not a crime in most/all of the countries they actually live in.

    Unlike, say... paying prostitutes for sex every couple of months for three or four years.

    The letter threatening legal action unless a hefty sum was paid could be considered an extortion attempt. Interesting how the only actionable crimes have been committed by Evans.

    As for what he is accusing Kim --or any of the seven-- of doing, no one knows for sure. He refuses to state what it is they did. For all we know, he has not provided the necessary details to the court, which would require an actual crime to have been committed in order to decide if they will prosecute anyone. There is reason to think that he is hoping people forget about the whole case.

  • ForeverAlone
    paying prostitutes for sex every couple of months for three or four years.

    I'm only going to assume that those prostitutes that he was referring to were all or most all of them were in Croatia. I can't see him going to another country every few months to pick up hookers, especially during the COVID lockdowns. I do not know how Croatia was impacted during, but I am betting that it would have been hard to leave the country.

    I am willing to bet that he is still sleeping with prostitutes while he is in Zagreb. If someone had the mind to, they could tip off the Croatian authorities as to his shenanigans. OOOHHHH interesting thought.

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas

    The problem stems from Croatia evidently having a "private prosecutor" procedure. I can't help but think this stems from the Yugoslav Wars era and the aftermath in the late 90s. Countries like Croatia and Bosnia were devastated. There had to have been people guilty of crimes such as destruction of property, looting and false imprisonment. Basically, too small of potatoes to be hauled in front of a tribunal in The Hague. People were angry and wanted a more direct way of getting justice instead of making a complaint to the police and hoping they have the resources to prosecute.

    The private prosecutor feature in the Croatian courts seems to be a result of this. Also, since many of the culprits were from Bosnia or Serbia, there was likely an issue of jurisdiction which was covered by the law. What they didn't intend was for this method to be used to prosecute foreigners for what amounts to digital insults on the internet.

    That is precisely what Cora Latham is being sued for. She made no videos and did not appear in her husband's two videos. No, she's being sued because of snarky and insulting tweets and retweeting some of what Kim and others tweeted.

    Look at Twitter, especially now that Musk has taken over. As you read this, thousands of insulting tweets, some with information which is not accurate are being sent. Imagine the legal chaos if even 25% of those were privately prosecuted over international borders.

    The issue of extortion would have to be based on what the law is in Croatia. Since they allow private prosecution, this is not likely extortion. Is it extortion in countries without private prosecution? Probably.

    Take Lloyd's statement from 10 June (which is still up):

    (2) The warning letters were non-negotiable and purely a part of the pre-trial process. They were not an intimidation strategy. My lawyers informed me there was no legal compulsion to send them but it would weigh in my favor if I gave those defaming me an opportunity to stop and make recompense. None of the defendants who received warning letters heeded them so we can move straight from pre-trial to the trial stage. In other words, there was one acceptable response to the warning letters, i.e. "I/we apologise and will comply with your request." Since no response of that kind was forthcoming, the lawsuit was filed.

    He offered a settlement option but did not conduct it in good faith. No counter-offers were acceptable to him. People were either to pay him €3000 or €8000 and take down all content related to him or be sued. All damages were arbitrarily set by him. Countries without private prosecutor laws would definitely count that as extortion had it happened in their countries. This is why the whole lawsuit suing people with absolutely no connection with Croatia is going to be so fruitless. It might be legal in Croatia, but it won't fly in most other countries.

    Evans has taunted several of his targets by sarcastically advising them to get a "good" Croatian lawyer. This comment actually has a point. The only way there is a trial is if the accused can be tricked into hiring a Croatian lawyer. This could be taken as tacit acknowledgement that they are indeed liable under Croatian laws and procedures.

  • DerekMoors

    All good points made by everyone.

    However, I still know for a fact that if someone who confessed to repeatedly committing a crime tried to make me or anyone else the bad guy and demanded money for simply repeating what he said and expressing an opinion about his crimes, I'd be so far up his lawyer's ass I could check his prostate while I'm there.

  • Vintage

    Wow, LMsA, that’s a lot of interesting information. Where did you find out about the “private prosecutor” procedure? And, that last paragraph of yours is jaw-dropping.

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