It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened 2795 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Good point about Telltale!

    Telltale uploaded a new video on Watchtower three days ago: 108,000 views

    Loyd uploaded a new video on Watchtower four days ago: 3,900 views

    Lloyd is a minnow compared with Telltale.

    Even Lloyd’s own patrons are leaking his membership videos now - oh the irony.

    It’s game over, and he knows it. He’s made a video telling his patrons he won’t be making new videos for a while because he’s fighting an entirely fictitious legal battle against people who have dared to say the truth about things he said and did.

    In the video he apologised to his patrons for missing his video with them last month. They pay him hundreds of pounds a month and he can’t even be bothered keep his promise of a special fluff video in their honour.

    Basically he is telling his patrons that he can’t be bothered making any more videos, but wants them to keep sending him money anyway. What crazy people are still falling for this? Lloyd knows the game is up. He just wants to squeeze another few payments out of his patrons before the rest desert him.

  • NonCoinCollector
    NonCoinCollector

    One could argue that the 2017 mess started years earlier.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/42tiif/a_word_on_crisis_of_conscience_copyright_and_ray/

    A word on Crisis of Conscience, copyright, and Ray Franz's legacy

    Note to mods/admins - I totally understand if you decide to remove this post. I'm bored of the subject myself, and will leave this to your discretion.

    On November 22nd, 2015, I posted a video on my channel announcing a competition in which I would give away a copy of Crisis of Conscience, by Raymond Franz, to one of my readers. I had bought five unauthorised copies from a friend in Romania (for which I paid $50, or $10 per copy) for no other reason than that the book had been allowed to go out of print, and second-hand authorised hard copies were only available for exorbitant amounts on Amazon.

    Little was I to know that two of my most determined “haters,” a couple of evangelical activists from New Mexico called Mike and Kim Brooks, would seize on my competition as a pretext to frame me as some sort of criminal. They released a video in which they tearfully bemoaned the fact that I was distributing bootleg copies of a copyrighted work, apparently oblivious to the fact that PDF copies of the book available on their own website represented just as much a violation of copyright as my reproduction hard copies.

    More video diatribes followed, with one especially fixated hater, Joel the “Unwitness,” declaring me an intellectual property thief. The situation escalated to such an extent that the copyright holder, Deborah Dykstra, was called upon to make a statement in which she strongly implicated me as an infringer of her copyrighted work. Rather than approach me privately to resolve matters, Dykstra allowed herself to be swayed by the Brooks’ and other activists who had an axe to grind. I eventually received a formal “cease and desist” letter via UPS at my home in Croatia, which probably cost more to write and send than the total value of the bootleg books.

    On receiving the letter, I contacted Deborah directly and quickly managed to reach an agreement. It was agreed that (1) I would remove all third-party links to Crisis of Conscience on JWsurvey, (2) I would pay her $50, or 100% royalties for my five bootleg copies, (3) I would ensure all details for others to order bootleg copies were removed from Facebook and Reddit, and (4) I would arrange for all placed orders of bootleg copies other than my five copies to be cancelled, and the buyers refunded. (Fortunately, although a number of orders were placed with my Romanian friend, none of the books had yet been printed, thus allowing him to abort any further unauthorised reproduction and return all the money.)

    Once all of these issues were successfully resolved, Deborah agreed that the matter was finally settled.

    However, on learning that some exJWs were complaining that the videos announcing my competition and showing the bootleg copies were still on YouTube, Deborah decided to “un-settle” matters and asked me to delete the videos in question.

    Since the videos were not exclusively to do with Crisis of Conscience (one was about a lawsuit in Belgium, and the other was an explanation of the “haters” phenomenon in the exJW movement), I couldn’t agree to deleting the videos. I did, however, offer to insert annotations on the videos in the relevant parts by way of disclaimers, so that people watching my videos would know that I do not support or endorse the distribution of unauthorised copies now that the copyright holder had come forward and made her feelings known on the matter.

    Deborah agreed to this compromise and, for a second time, the matter was settled.

    Then, at some point over Christmas I was emailed by someone calling herself “Hadriel Haze” who claimed to represent Deborah since, apparently, she no longer wished to deal with me directly. Hadriel made it clear that Deborah wanted the videos removed, and told me that she had already lodged complaints with YouTube so that YouTube could remove the videos arbitrarily. (As it turns out, YouTube must have rejected these complaints because the videos were never removed.)

    I explained to Hadriel that I had already had lengthy email exchanges with Deborah, that we had twice before resolved matters, and that I couldn’t allow Deborah to keep moving the goalposts. There would be no third settlement. A line had to be drawn, and I objected to having my YouTube channel censored simply because, as I saw it, certain exJWs hell bent on my downfall wanted to see me silenced and humiliated. In particular, I could well understand why the very people I had described as obsessive haters in my “announcing the winner” video would want that particular video removed at all costs.

    After Hadriel refused to take no for an answer, I made it clear to her that, as far as I was concerned, the copyright fiasco was settled. I told her that if either she or Deborah emailed me again on the matter, I would consider it harassment and make public my concerns over Deborah’s handing of the matter.

    I was particularly disappointed by Deborah’s apparent disinterest in launching Crisis of Conscience in a number of new translations that have recently been completed (namely Croatian, Hungarian, and Romanian). Such neglect was, I felt, a grave disservice to Ray Franz’s legacy, and I felt confident that Deborah would at least see the sense in putting an end to bothering me in favour of not having all this brought to everyone’s attention.

    A few peaceful weeks passed until today, January 26th, 2016, I learned that Hadriel had re-surfaced on a certain forum complaining about my actions and my “threatening” of her and Deborah. I also learned that my friend, Patrick Haeck, had been sent intimidating messages due to his being present on the video where I announced the competition.

    After giving the matter careful thought, and fully investigating my options, I decided the best thing to do was to edit the “giveaway” video and the “announcing the winner” video so that all objectionable references to bootleg copies of Crisis of Conscience were removed. (I wasn't aware that I could do this until today.) Now that the videos are edited, ALL perceived grievances that Deborah Dykstra may have against me, including those of any who claim to represent her, are now fully settled.

    To recap, we now have a situation where:

    (1) a competition in which a bootleg copy of Crisis was offered as a prize was altered, so that an authorised copy was given away instead

    (2) the five bootleg copies, the only ones of their kind to be produced to my knowledge, have all been effectively authorised by the copyright holder, Deborah Dykstra, who has accepted $50 by way of royalties

    (3) all other bootleg copies that were ordered from my Romanian friend were never printed, and those who paid for their orders had their payments refunded

    (4) all links to PDF copies of Crisis of Conscience have been removed from JWsurvey

    (5) all details for ordering more bootleg copies of Crisis of Conscience have been removed from Reddit and Facebook, and

    (6) all objectionable references to bootleg copies of Crisis of Conscience have been edited out of the two relevant YouTube videos on the John Cedars channel.

    There is now no conceivable reason for anyone to perpetuate this bizarre witch-hunt, whether it is Hadriel Haze, Mike and Kim Brooks, Deborah Dykstra, Joel Martz the "Unwitness," or anyone else.

    It is my sincere hope that at some point Deborah Dykstra will fully understand the responsibility she has inherited as copyright holder of Ray Franz’s works. Yes, she has the right to do whatever she wants with Crisis of Conscience, either to not make any copies available, or to make copies available at great expense. The decision is entirely hers, and we must ultimately respect that.

    However, I believe there is a strong moral argument for Deborah to at least consider making PDF copies of Crisis of Conscience freely available in all languages. Around 8 million Jehovah’s Witnesses are currently sorely in need of the information in Crisis of Conscience, many of whom will be living in dire poverty in developing countries where even a modest outlay of 1 or 2 dollars is prohibitive.

    As regards new translations, the languages of Croatian, Hungarian and Romanian currently account for around 70,000 indoctrinated Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the translations have been available and ready to distribute for weeks.

    Deborah has known about these translations since I alerted her to them in December, but hasn’t once expressed any interest in making them available, either freely or otherwise. Is it morally defensible for Crisis of Conscience to be withheld in these languages?

    I would argue that sitting on the rights of Crisis of Conscience and limiting its availability is tantamount to sitting on a stockpile of antibiotics in the midst of an epidemic. People need that information, and if you can’t find it within yourself to give it to them freely, you should at least give them the opportunity to pay for it.

    To deprive people of the information in Crisis of Conscience is literally to keep people in a cult who would otherwise be rapidly awakening.

    I sincerely hope Deborah can summon the presence of mind to make this life-saving resource as widely available as possible instead of threatening litigation, helping to perpetuate witch hunts, and otherwise bowing to the whims of people whose agenda has little to do with healthy, progressive, strategic activism. The ball is now well and truly in her court, and in many ways always was.

  • Simon
    Simon
    He should have said they are not proven. Who really knows if they are false, apart from Lloyd himself, and possibly a few others?

    Yes, I don't think anyone has said "Lloyd definitely met up with an underage girl" but rather that he's been accused of that and the accusations are credible in that some purported evidence has been produced and it aligns with his own admission in his book about sexting "girls" and subsequent behavior and admission that he can't control himself sexually.

    I would guess only Lloyd and possibly his wife and the relative that is apparently behind the allegations can know for certain, no one here can say for sure either way, the police would need to investigate and we know all the information has been handed over to them.

    There's the same lack of ability for anyone else to definitively declare it "false", unless it is a hoax and they are behind it or party to it.

  • Simon
    Simon

    God, that reddit post is his typical blame casting, victim blaming and obfuscation. Who believes his side of any tale any more?

    I particularly like how he's quick to want to give away someone else's copyright work:

    However, I believe there is a strong moral argument for Deborah to at least consider making PDF copies of Crisis of Conscience freely available in all languages

    Q: Does he make his own book available for free? If not, why not?

    Not that I believe a PDF of it is of any use to anyone (at least you could wipe your arse on a paper copy or burn it for some heat), but isn't he hypocritical?

    Oh wait, that's not news ... carry on :)

  • NonCoinCollector
    NonCoinCollector

    Even if all Lloyd did was give away 5 copies of Crisis of Conscience to his channel members, they would have been paying members.

    (3) all other bootleg copies that were ordered from my Romanian friend were never printed, and those who paid for their orders had their payments refunded

    And there you have it. Lloyd and his Romanian friend were stealing the copyright for profit and was planning on producing it in additional languages.

    Deborah has known about these translations since I alerted her to them in December, but hasn’t once expressed any interest in making them available, either freely or otherwise. Is it morally defensible for Crisis of Conscience to be withheld in these languages?

    I would argue that sitting on the rights of Crisis of Conscience and limiting its availability is tantamount to sitting on a stockpile of antibiotics in the midst of an epidemic. People need that information, and if you can’t find it within yourself to give it to them freely, you should at least give them the opportunity to pay for it.

  • Vintage
    Vintage

    There was a 2017 event in Texas. Was anyone talking about that?https://mobile.twitter.com/cedarsjwsurvey/status/938329448574783489

  • NonCoinCollector
    NonCoinCollector

    Telltale uploaded a new video on Watchtower three days ago: 108,000 views

    Loyd uploaded a new video on Watchtower four days ago: 3,900 views

    Lloyd is a minnow compared with Telltale.

    Even Lloyd’s own patrons are leaking his membership videos now - oh the irony.

    Let's do a side by side comparison. Telltale has more than 3 times the subscribers on his main channel with less than half as many videos. Quality over quantity wins every time. So much for the argument that we are attacking Lloyd because he is the biggest channel that talks about Watchtower. Owen is also smart enough to expand his content to all cults and doesn't just make long rebuttals to Watchtower videos.


  • TonusOH
    TonusOH
    Rather than approach me privately to resolve matters, Dykstra allowed herself to be swayed by the Brooks’ and other activists who had an axe to grind. I eventually received a formal “cease and desist” letter via UPS at my home in Croatia, which probably cost more to write and send than the total value of the bootleg books.

    It's as if he looks at a situation, then thinks "is there a way I can make myself look like an even bigger douchebag?"

    And then he brainstorms for a few hours and starts writing about it.

  • Chinapomo
    Chinapomo

    Lloyd is still convinced that spamming YouTube with his sushis will help with the engagement and the vievs.

    YouTube awards constantly uploading content yes, but not spamming the channel with duplicate cut and paste videos.

    As I said many times, Lloyd is anything but smart.

    Come on, who does a video telling his patron to keep donating even though he won't do what they patrons signed up for? Even watchtower is smarter. They don't tell the rank and file to keep donating because they have to pay for the CSA lawsuits 😂

  • Simon
    Simon

    I think Lloyd at least is able to convince himself of many things.

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