Does anyone think Jehovah is protecting the org. despite all the talk about THE ARC ?

by tor1500 105 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  smiddy

  The ARC highlighted that JW`s never contacted the police or Child Protection Agency`s about the abuse that happened in 1006 cases that the judicial committees of J.W.`s handled over decades of time.

  That is only in Australia , it is not the only Country , this same avoidance of contacting authorities has happened in .It is a recurring theme that has occurred in numerous Country`s across the globe , in Europe , Australasia , and the America`s .

  So it is no isolated case.

  It`s a worldwide policy that is the problem in the Jehovah`s Witness Religion that needs to be addressed .

  Maybe the United Nations should become aware of this problem within the Jehovah`s Witnesses .

  smiddy
• 

  Fisherman

  Rather than address a defect in the JW's

  Einstein, how many times should the WT proclaim that they do not turn in sinners to the police? This is not a new church doctrine (100 years! Can't you read doctor or is your degree honorary only?) and it is not a new issue with the Courts in the US (100 years). In spite of all of the attempts to force the Courts to force the WT to report sinners to the police in the US, It is business as usual -they ain't doing it although you like it and think that it is a defect.

  It ain't a defect to do what they continue do because the US Courts have not determined that, prodigy or forced the WT to change their doctrine to report sinners or criminals or penitent or whatever you like to fix -to the police. They ain't doing it in the US and nobody has been able to LEGALLY force them to do it. Got it genius? On the other hand the WT does obey the law. When the law mandates, the WT complies with the law. That is what they teach and that is what they practice.
  

  The Catholic church also asserts the same rights under the law. They ain't reporting sinners to the police either. (They are part of Babylon the Great, and the UN charged the Vatican with protecting their (alleged) pedophile ministers but that is another matter, but a church that is made up of (alleged) child abusers -which is the real UN issue with the RCC- is different than when the a sinner parishioner goes to the RCC church for help.)

  No one condemned Babylon the Great for exercising church penitent confidentiality. It ain't about that and you know it, Aristotle. The outrage that was being expressed about the RCC was that their ministers were the ones being accused of engaging in child abuse without being censured by the church -NOT THE PARISHIONERS confessing sins. Stop lying.

  ( True JW believe that RCC is part of Babylon the Great and they will incur God's wrath ,) but my link shows the RCC asserting their rights of confidentiality in-spite of challenge SAME AS JW continue to do so. Stop lying about my intention of posting the link.

  The RCC proclaims in my link that no one is stopping victims or their families to go to Caesar directly -but THEY AIN'T DOING IT!
  

  AS far as I know, the RC is still investigating allegations against the WT and the investigation is still ongoing without you helping the RC beforehand to reach their determination or rule or whatever it is that they do after they consider all of the facts and come to a decision. But I trust very much in the integrity of the RC and I am confident that they will do what is just and proper in-spite of what vitriolics like you want.

  The WT is afforded the right in Australia to defend themselves legally and that is what they are doing and you may not like what WT lawyers advise WT to do -but as Marvin Shilmer would say:"TOO BAD!" They haven't gone to jail for defending themselves and if you do not like how WT is defend themselves, again, too bad for you and for anyone that does not like it.
• 

  Fisherman

  Candice Conti case

  Plaintiffs failed in legally forcing the WT to change anything. All they wanted was money and that is what they settled for - money.
  
• 

  zeb

  You speak of child abuse a sin? That's funny so does the wts. But in my state news paper today is;

  "Church elder is jailed over sex abuse." "The West. Australian 13/ 02 /2016.

  The article gives its terrible account and there it is where the assault was reported by one of the teens "to elders in 1997 but Police were not made aware of the abuse until he filed a Police report in 2014." 17 years later..note 'he' the victim not the elders.

  Robbery, assault, murder, paedophile attacks are all crimes against the law. To not report such when you have knowledge is called "accessory after the fact". But in wt land only paedophile acts are considered 'sins.' There must be a hell of a lot of very dirty washing to be hung out from wt wally world and that is why they are so reluctant to report or further, to require members to hold 'working with child clearances' certificates issued by the Police in Australia. Why did the wts in Sydney HQ initially refuse to do this? once again above the law?

  Todays article stated that the offender was "forcibly ejected from the church for being ""insufficiently repentant"" in 1997 and re-admitted the following year at his request. !!!!

  He was jailed yesterday Friday for 3 years with 18 months before being considered for parole.

  Lets sum up simply. sexual abuse of children is against the law. Not to report this crime is also against the law.
• 

  OzGirl

  At the end of the public hearings (for the WT) during the ARC, Justice Peter McClellan said that the WT had two and a half years to amend its policy on child sexual abuse.

  By the end of two and a half years, its policies must meet best practice standards.

  Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in Australia in the 1940's. What prevents the Australian Government from doing that again?

  I'm sure that the ARC will bring about justice too.
• 

  zeb

  Fisherman.

  The conti case you say was a warded money. Money in the law is the medium of value used to determine penalty or award by which the victim may be compensated to address their medical or psychiatric needs. To say Contis went to court for money alone is quite despicable. The wt society was also found guilty.

  in these pages I have tried to clarify for foreign readers the procedures of the Royal Commission and its operations indeed the ARC has thanked me for my efforts overall which is humbling and gratifying at the same time.

  It is my feelings fisherman that you are a fanatic. As Churchill said; "A fanatic is one who never changes his mind and who will never change the conversation". Thus I will never address you directly on this forum ever again I trust you will extend to me the same courtesy.
• 

  Fisherman

  you speak of child abuse a sin? That's funny so does the wts.

  It is not funny. Most sins are crimes. Can't you see that dummy? Killing stealing adultery lying , etc. The government knows this. Cant you think! The government also knows and wants and understands that people need and should be allowed to get spiritual help and because government has also deemed that is a human right, like privacy, and the right for confidentiality between lawyer and client are human rights and that is just one reason WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! government allows religion to EXIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and that is why government also allows confidential communication between church and "penitent" (or "alleged" criminal -a person must be found guilty in the US before he is deemed a criminal) so they can get the spiritual help which is a human right. When government mandates the reporting of crimes or sins by the church to the police it means (if you can think just a little bit -but try) that government does not allow the church to exist because the church is all about sin and repentance (spiritual help) and you cannot have that if the church fears the police or the sinner fears the church will turn him in. What does that mean then: 1 The church must break the law or 2 the government must destroy the church. If God exists as he claims he does in the Bible, He must protect " the church" (and I don't'mean BTG), if he does not -as we say here in the US -goodbye Charlie.
  
• 

  Fisherman

  It is my feelings fisherman that you are a fanatic.

  You are full of bolony zeb. Business as usual for the WT. Dummy, a civil Court (Conti case) does not determine guilt, it decides liabilty. Guilt is decided in criminal court and must be proven beyond any reasonable doubt. Stop posting trash!

  The Plaintiffs (Conti) wanted money that is what they got.

  You post trash.

  I am not responding to any more of your posts. And you do not have the intelligence to refute my posts and your lame excuse is that I should not post to you and all you can do is to remark about my post but you CANNOT invalidate what I post.
  
• 

  Listener

  Most sins are crimes.

  No they're not. You then proceeded to list a couple that, under most circumstances, are not a crime - adultery and lying.

  When government mandates the reporting of crimes or sins by the church to the police it means (if you can think just a little bit -but try) that government does not allow the church to exist because the church is all about sin and repentance (spiritual help) .

  The Church is not all about sin and repentance, it is about people grouping together to worship God.

  What on earth are you talking about when you state that the Government doesn't allow the Church to exist when it imposes mandatory reporting. Church's still operate in places where mandatory reporting currently exist.

  Could you please stop all your name calling and belittling of people?
• 

  Fisherman

  adultery and lying.

  In the US, adultery was in the Penal code and so was homosexuality and other forms of sex until a few years ago.They might still be classed as misdemeanors in some States So adultery was a crime and may still be a prosecutable crime in some states and in some countries. Because adultery violates the marriage contract and is a basis for a divorce in the US it is unlawful conduct. Lying on your taxes and other forms of lying are crimes

  Worshiping God is integrated with spiritual help because people sin all of the time. The WT publishes that over 40,000 people are DF every year and besides that, all the people that confess private stuff. If you can visualize a church reporting sinners to the bobbies, ok. But that is what I am talking about. The Catholic church requires people to confess every week and they would not do so if they had to fear the police. Try to understand what I mean. How can you worship God with a guilty conscience and how could anyone get spiritual help if there was no freedom of communication -but fear.
  

  Church's still operate in places where mandatory reporting currently exist.

  And you think they are calling the cops on poeple? or are they breaking the law and the state is looking the other way -until now. I stand by what I say. The church cannot exist with mandatory reporting. At least if the state enforces it or if the church starts calling the cops - goodbye charlle.
  

  Could you please stop all your name calling and belittling of people?

  Granted. I get carried away.
  

  Anyway , I made my point on this topic. No point in repeating everything I said.