May you both have peace!
First, dear Gumby, please forgive my "can of worms", but you know I must respond -
Aguest, you know Im going to question you on this.
Actually, dear Ellderwho, I did not know that. But since you have...
Before I begin, however, I must make it known to all here that I now "know" you, by means of your replying accurately to my question. I am not uncertain why you felt it should not be made public, other than your kind consideration that I might not want the gist of your reply to me, but please know that I have nothing to hide, nor to be ashamed of, so I would not have taken offense at your reply being public. Truly. In my humble opinion, you and I are no different that Apollo (who was aglow with holy spirit) and Prisca/Aquilla (who had to expound the way of God MORE ACCURATELY to him).
They did not let their difference in understanding separate them from the love of the Christ... and therefore, each other. Now, on with this subject, as it is the same that we were discussing previously:
Why do you tell people they can choose God.
Because... they can. God and Christ are one, in union. And Christ... is the Life. And we CAN... choose Life. We have ALWAYS had a choice, just as Adam and Eve did: to eat from the Tree of Life... or the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad. The choice... IS ours.
Ive asked you to prove this, and were unable. Why? because its not in scripture.
I must humbly disagree with you, Ellderwho; I believe I did indeed give you proof, but you do not accept such proof. The proof I submitted to you was that it is based on OUR heart condition that we ARE chosen: God chooses those who are clean... of HEART. And it is we who CHOOSE what is in our hearts. God does not see man sees, but what the HEART is. Our HEART... however... and what is IN it, is in OUR control... and no one else's.
There are SO many scriptures and verses to support this that I don't know where to begin! But, I should not have to give you scriptures or verses, for the holy spirit that is IN you should bear witness to the truth that I have shared with you. However, I will at least give you:
James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5, 6, Matthew 23:12, Luke 14:11 and Isaiah 58:6-59:2
and then I ask you, based on this, WHOSE choice it is? True, God WILL humble us... if we do not humble ourselves. But that is not a "good" humbling, is it? Is that how He even wants to do it, humble us rather than we humble ourselves? I believe He wants US to do it. Thus, if it remains with us to humble ourselves so that God can and WILL exalt us... WHOSE choice IS it?
Show this forum how your doctrine works.
I have no "doctrine", dear Ellderwho. It is a simply a matter of what you perceive versus what I do. You feel that we have NO choice, than God has His mind made up and chooses according to that will. I don't dispute that; however, I assert that such choice is FIRST based on a choice WE make... that WE can CHOOSE to draw close to Him so that He WILL draw close to us and draw us to Christ. I assert that it is WE who can CHOOSE to cleanse the "inside of the cup"... it is we who can CHOOSE to humble ourselves... to make our minds and HEARTS over.
From scriptures and where in scripture does it teach this so-called Choice.
I have given you the above, and again say that there are way too many to post here. I would exhort you, then, to look up every scripture/verse YOU can... with regard to the heart. But I will also respond to your statement elsewhere that the Truth is *Jesus* and that he sets us free by holy spirit, both of which statements are true :
Matthew 7:7; Mark 11:24; Luke 11:13
Now, I also have to say that these are not "scripture"... so I am not sure if you accept this "proof" of choice. Thus, I also give you 2 Kings 2:9, 10, which was written by Jeremiah, the Prophet, and thus IS scripture.
If your going to step out and proclaim this is what "your Lord" has told you to teach you better be able to back it up.
Well, of COURSE, dear one, as my Lord would NEVER leave me without a "second" witness. For those who lack faith ALWAYS need such, don't they?
With something more than it was whispered in my ear.
Hmmmm... personally, for ME... that is truly all it takes. My FAITH... is the same as that of Noah: who besides him heard to build an ark? Who besides Abraham heard to take up Isaac and sacrifice him? Who besides Moses saw the burning bush and heard the voice speaking to him? Is that not what faith IS... the assured expectation of the things hopes for, the EVIDENT demonstration of REALITIES... THOUGH NOT BEHELD? But, to help you get the sense of WHY what is whispered in MY ear is sufficient for ME, I give you:
Matthew 10:27 (which has been mistranslated/mistransliterated in the account written by Luke, but is of no concern, for he SAID he received his account from others, thus, 2nd-, 3rd-, 4th-hand... or more).
I also give you John 10:3-5, 27, Hebrews 12:18-25, and with reference to myself and how it is that I hear, 1 Corinthians 12:10. With reference to the latter, I must ask how it is that you believe you have received such spirit... and yet, deny its gifts (and I don't mean its "fruits", but its "gifts").
You went on to say to Gumby that:
I may have tired Shelby out.
Do not worry about me, dear one. I get my "refreshment" from my Lord... so I have the stamina to continue the discussion, so long as you do. That is, at least, until it becomes unfruitful... or blasphemous.
I took her for a swim in scripture and come to find out shes really a "scripitual spiritizing swimmer" You know "lets take one verse and jump up and down on it without contextualizing" I smell a little Jw-ism there.
I am sorry you feel that way, dear Ellderwho, truly. I don't believe it to be accurate, and I won't say here what I think it is that YOU are doing, because I would then be speaking against you and by means of the spirit that we "share"... would be "dividing" the Christ. I am sorry, but I cannot do that.
If what I have shared with you above is sufficient, then, praise JAH! If not... please ask and I will endeavor to make even more reply, if need be.
Again, I bid you peace... and I am...
YOUR servant... and FELLOW slave of Christ...