Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

by minimus 194 Replies latest jw friends

  • LoveUniHateExams

    When you've read and digested "Brain Storm," we'll talk- XD

    So, I don't get to dictate the discussion but you do?

    I need to read a 408 page book before we can have a conversation on Baron Cohen's neonate conclusions. XD

    BTW, do you believe that every human is a blank slate at birth?

  • LoveUniHateExams

    But the elephant in the room question is, Why do some men do things like that? Is it an instinct hidden deep in our collective psyche, inherited from our ancient ancestors?

    Or, is it a cultural meme, shared by some men (but not all)? - perhaps the instinct in some men drives the meme?

    I've seen horrific scenes in horror films but they wouldn't drive me to act out those scenes.

    I wonder if studies into computer games and violence could provide any help ...

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Why do some men when they are together, act out in a juvenile way??

    Why do some women when they get together act out in a juvenile way?? - I think women tend to be more sensible than men, although they're not immune to peer pressure, etc.

    When young men and women first pass their driving test and get their first car, the insurance is more expensive for the men.

    Incidentally, I haven't got a problem with that. Young men are generally more dangerous behind the wheel than young women - I bet young men cause more accidents.

  • em1913

    I'd think you'd want to read that book. You seem to put a lot of stock in the findings of one scientist -- here's a chance to get a look at a broad range of the research in his field and see how his methods stack up. But hey, you accept whatever terms you want, I'm not going to nag you about it. But one day, you will read that book, if out of curiosity more than anything else.

    As far as blank slates go, well, I have mechanical aptitude -- which neither my mother nor father have. I can act -- which neither of my parents could do. I can't play any musical instrument, although both my parents had natural musical talent. I read constantly although neither of my parents ever read anything more complicated than a newspaper once they got out of high school. So I dunno -- whatever my behavior is I didn't inherit it from them. I wouldn't say we're entirely blank, but neither would I suggest that our traits are engraved in our genes, whether along gender lines or what. At most, we might have an inclination toward certain things, but anything else we have to pick up on our own.

  • fulltimestudent

    em1913: "That's not because I'm hawwwwt baby, it's because these little turds think they're putting me in my place, whatever that might be."

    You've got a cool reaction to these kids. But assuming your right, how did they learn this behaviour. Why would the want to put you into any place? Was it instinctive? Or was it a cultural meme, passed on by male relatives or associates?"

    Your response is common. In China, the same sentiment is expressed when someone calls out, " diu lei lo mo! (屌你老母 or 𨳒你老母), "go f*** your mother!_

    But repartee aside, without understanding why such young men are motivated to act like this, we may never change what appears to be deep-seated behaviour.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    I'd think you'd want to read that book - yes, I'll read the book if the library has it.

    You seem to put a lot of stock in the findings of one scientist - no, I don't do this. I was practically begging for me and you to have a proper discussion about why his conclusions are wrong/are taken out of context.

    As far as blank slates go, well, ... - there are extremists trying to engineer society and push for change who do believe in the blank slate theory.

    That's at least partly why Gillette put out a crappy commercial.

    What evidence is there for the blank slate theory?

  • cofty

    em - Twin studies show beyond all doubt that so much of our interests and abilities are down to our genes.

    Have a read at 'The Blank Slate' by Steven Pinker; Nature Via Nurture by Matt Ridley; 'We are our Brains' by Dick Swaab. They are all on my library shelf. None of them are the opinions of one scientist; they all describe a wide range of studies and deal with objections to the hard science by ideology-led academics working in humanities.

    Another book on the topic that I haven't read yet is 'Blueprint, How DNA Makes us Who We are' by Robert Plomin

  • unsure

    I'm not educated enough on the subject to debate it or form an unbiased opinion on the subject but I thought I'd share this article.

    Quoting: "‘Traditional masculinity’ officially deemed ‘harmful’ by American Psychological Association"

  • em1913

    I've read some of Pinker, but I find his public persona really smarmy and obnoxious. Not quite Richard Dawkins obnoxious, but not somebody I'd want to have over for supper. And like Dawkins, it's hard for me to see a hard line of separation between the man's media persona and his theories -- he seems to be as interested in building his personal brand as he is in promulgating hard science. I suppose one might do some interesting research on the question of "Are Public Intellectuals Inclined From Birth To Be Dickheads?"

  • em1913

    As for the wee tykes on the street who made comments about what they'd like to do to my "fat ass," well, if they're genetically inclined for that kind of behavior, it's a good argument for retroactive abortion. But I don't believe that it came out of their genes, somebody taught them to act that way, and "cultural meme" is a pretty good way to describe it.

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