Is it Time to Declare that The Great Tribulation Has Started ?

by OnTheWayOut 100 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • OnTheWayOut

    Page 8 has mostly my replies, but a few others.
    Page 8 replies:

    BluesBrother, I believe if the situation continues the same, they will lose too many people and too much in the way of donations. That's part of why I speculate that they move doctrine and prophecy along and declare something new. When too many members are ready to revolt over the closings and selling-off, they will have an answer besides, "Shut up and obey." They will be able to say "No time to explain, you know- it being the great tribulation and all." But just a thought. They might could keep going on fleecing enough people without such a change.

    Doubtfully Yours, well yeah. It gets old. It will never reach all. Many will leave if they do nothing, many will leave if they do something. This something would probably wake many up, but the remnant will be even more loyal than ever.

    BlackSwan of Memphis, I think DY is saying something many of us who have woken up say- They have done such stuff before so much that it doesn't phase "us."

  • TheListener

    I believe that the fear of the GT starting any day, any minute, any second is much more powerful and long lasting than actually claiming or hinting that it started.

    Once they claim the GT has started, no matter how long they stretch it out, it will lose some of its boogey man scariness to the rank and file. I know they live in anticipation of it but deep down I think many dubs fear it as well, especially the ones that believe but know they've been baaaaaaad.

    By not starting it but scaring the crap out of everyone that the GT boogey man is coming any second by showing bunker videos and talking up possible persecution scenarios they can keep the sheeple in line and donating - just hoping and praying and paying that the GT starts soon to end their misery. But, fearful of what actually happens once it does start.

  • jwleaks

    Conversation with some trolley ladies (and a nosey elder-type):

    ME: What religion are you?

    THEM: Jehovah's Witnesses.

    ME: Wow, really? I have a close friend, Kevin, who works at the United Nations as an expert on international religious affairs. Kevin was telling me recently that he was called in to a high level UN meeting where they were discussing the Jehovah church. He said that many of the various government ambassadors were there and they were talking about plans to ban the Jehovah's church worldwide and sieze all their assets. Kevin also told me that they were already starting in Europe and Russia. He said it could be the end of the Jehovah church and that almost all the goverment officials were in agreement.

    THEM: (Stupified).

    ELDER-TYPE MALE: The Bible prophecied that governments would turn on false religion.

    (I don't he gave much thought to that answer and what he actually said with his Freudian-slip but rather parrot-quoted the party line.)

    ME: Really? Are the Jehovah's expecting the governments to turn on their church?

    ELDER-TYPE MALE: The Bible says that they will and we believe the bible.

    ME: Wow, because my friend at the UN said that the plans were being made be because of the prevelance of child abuse within the Jehovah church and the coverups. That's why the Jehovah church is being investigated all around the world. Wouldn't want to be a member of your church when the police and governments start rounding up all your leaders and ministers. You're gonna need somewhere to hide, like a basement or something. Have a nice day.


    The RC hasn't started in my area but these JW's will no doubt feel that the bunker videos are "food at the proper time."

    Maybe everyone, everywhere, should share my Kevin experience and get them all edgy and nervous. After all, the GB are playing the fear factor and who are we to argue with the Guardians of Doctrine.

  • BlackSwan of Memphis
    BlackSwan of Memphis

    yeah I guess I can see that....
    It seems like w the ... wonky videos and such that they're amping it up.
    Like really, videos of people holing themselves up in a basement?
    It's like a few steps forward and a few steps back. The stuff they've come up with is almost like they're ready to go full throttle.
    Not quite yet, but soon. :/

    However - yes, I forget as someone brought on a different thread, way, way, way back uhm before I was born, there were the compounds that was it Rutherford built? The home for the princes or something like that?

    Still... something very odd here. And after looking at the various cults that have gone down horribly wrong, this is concerning. Figure... I think a lot of us have thought they aren't that insane they would do something like Jonestown. However, their policies have shown an amazing coldness for human life and dignity. So while at one time I can honestly say I wouldn't have thought of them as being capable of doing something so much more twisted, the manner in which they're manipulating people right now is beginning to scare me more than it would have before.

  • flipper

    BLACK SWAN- I agree with you. I've been out of this JW organization for 13 years now- and the older part of my extended family i.e., older siblings and my older dad - are just as much fanatic in this JW cult as they always were- yet even more so in a desperate type of way. Like they REALLY want Armageddon to happen soon- or they'll die of old age - like the normal human race does.

    The inhumane treatment I see my older dad and brother giving my mom is very similar to the way I see the GB laying off Bethel workers, sending them out to pasture, shutting kingdom halls down selling them and taking the money- consolidating all the WT finances in a way to prepare for something big going down, either tons of child abuse lawsuits, or having to liquidate eventually due to risky financial investments and stopping all construction worldwide of all kingdom halls.

    It IS a scary scenario going on within the JW organization right now. And I agree with you- I don't put ANYTHING past what the WT leaders would try to do to our families that are still inside. I could easily see some kind of manipulation like a Jim Jones scene where they order everybody to do something stupid to show their alleged " loyalty " to WT leaders and the organization. One reason I hope my 29 year old daughter gets out of it soon. And for my grandson's sake

  • BlackSwan of Memphis
    BlackSwan of Memphis

    Flipper, exactly, this is some weird stuff.
    And they don't give two squats about their members.
    The creepy thing is that they have far more money than these other half wit cults.
    But as it comes out that they are just that - a cult - what will they do? What are they preparing to do?

    I wish you so much peace with your family. As a mom I don't know that I can comprehend the pain of my kids being stuck in this organization. It's hard enough with my mom and sibs, but my kids? That would be the ultimate devastation.

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    I think it would be easier for them to change the preaching from a "message of hope" to a "message of judgement" than it would to rework the GT prophecy. Of course, they have reworked their teachings so many times over the years that they can literally change anything they want and be fine.

    But, if the goal is to reduce the printing operation and reduce staff and locations, they can simply change the preaching work to just be public preaching (carts/trolley) and the internet along with studies and RVs on people that expressed interest. Keep the WT as study only and eliminate the Awake. Change the midweek meeting to local groups doing the book study again with a once month "service" meeting. Or eliminate the midweek all together and just have a weekly broadcast.

    The preaching work as it is currently handled is their biggest infrastructure issue. Drastically changing it would allow them to cut way back on physical assets. Certainly they are trying to reduce the number of KHs used. And if you went to one meeting a week, you could really utilize those buildings even more. Or in areas with AHs, you could have congregations with hundreds of people.

    I still think they have lots of options but they need to be more strategic than they have been in the past. They simply make too many bad business decisions.

  • LV101

    I think there are a few religions out there blathering end times -- I heard last wk from my ex-witness friend that even Joyce Myers said she thinks it's the end times and Jesus is coming. With all the terrorism, crook-politics, crazies on the strip she sees daily - anything/everything negative and how the JWs aren't afraid to call it what it is and she was considering returning to the cult. I was exhausted after emails reminding her what the org really is - this goes on about 3 times a yr. and she and her ex-husband (elder) walked away because of serious pedophile case in the congregation.

  • OnTheWayOut

    Page 9 replies:

    The Listener, I used to believe that the GT would "start any day, any minute, any second" and that such belief was powerful enough to keep me in line until it actually started. But as the calendar made them change generation and the sealing and judging and whatever else they saw necessary, it got old. That's part of why I say they may move the timeline forward with such a grand announcement. I believe their message has already lost "some of its boogey man scariness to the rank and file." But I just speculate. You could be right.

    jwleaks, love your Kevin story. I will use the name Kevin if ever I repeat such a story. Or "Johnny the Bethelite."

    BlackSwan of Memphis, they have to float ideas out there to see the reaction before they go "full throttle." If enough dubs react negatively, they drop potential doctrine. I think they have been floating the "120 years of the last days similar to the 120 years of Noah" for quite a long time. They won't go full throttle with it until they feel they need to.

    Flipper, I have seen many JW's so want the GT and Armageddon in their time before "their time" got away from them. My mother is there now, but she's more resigned to just keep quiet and not get so obvious about her hope. When I first heard of Bethel laying off workers, I started thinking how that wasn't very "family" of them. Extreme lay-offs, money grabs, closing of Halls- just may call for extreme doctrines. We shall see.

    BlackSwan of Memphis, such encouraging words you share with Flipper (and us all). Like you say, "...they don't give two squats about their members."

    Doubting Bro, they COULD change the message without announcing the start of the GT. They COULD say as I mentioned earlier, the ark is closed but you might could be allowed to stand on the open deck and not be washed away if you really kiss some Governing Body asses. Or as you suggest, taper it down to just those that show interest or find Watchtower via the internet and maybe the cart work (if they can just offer tracts or change the carts to video displays). I think their options are only limited by the radical acceptance factor- it takes awhile for hardcore JW's to accept radical changes.

    LV101, It's been end times with Jesus coming in some portion of Christianity for 2000 years. There was a huge push as the 20th century started[- Even C.T. Russell was there for that one.Strength to you and yours.

  • James Jack
    James Jack

    I had been ignoring this thread, until the CO meeting with the Elders and MS's.

    He said "Everyone get out your Tablets. And those who do not have look on with your neighbor(5 out of 12 don't have a device). "

    He told us to go to the WT Online Library, W13 p20, paragraph 17 point (3), he paused and said: This is why all of us should try to learn to use these devices because if forced to leave our homes, we can easily carry our devices and be able to receive information from the Faithful Slave from anywhere. Then he reads:

    "At that time, the life-saving direction we receive from Jehovah's Organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive( he injects, like using our Tablets), whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not."

    The CO pauses again, and says "Brothers, SOMETHING VERY BIG IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN ON THE WORLD SCENE!

    I said to myself, he we go again...

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