I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion.... (page 11)

cofty

if there is no God then love doesn't exist

On the contrary I know what love is. I know what good is. Only christians who need to justify drowning thousands of babies need to pretend they don't know.

If I don't have all the facts, how can I judge the situation? I'm not going to say Jesus isn't good and loving when he died for me. Are you willing to die for me? I didn't think so. Would you die for someone that would spit on your corpse? I didn't think so!

So my loyalty is to Jesus.

Maybe that will be my first question in heaven about why he allowed that tsunami. I am only a finite creature, how can I know or understand everything that happens?

So, for you, that understands all things apparently, you can come to that conclusion! I can't because I don't know everything!

I do know that everyone dies. Those people in Thailand would still have died of something. Death is our wages that we earn for sin. They earned their wages that day. I will earn my wages someday. You will too. Then comes judgement. You just sound like you're shaking your fist because we die. I don't blame you, it's the worst thing! Even Jesus cried about it before he was about to bring that person back from the dead. I wish death wasn't s reality. It's heartbreaking!!

cofty

I do know that everyone dies. Those people in Thailand would still have died of something.

Interesting defense for mass murder. - 'Sorry about all the dead babies but hey they would have died eventually'

Are you actually gas-lighting me?

If I don't have all the facts, how can I judge the situation?

Your god murdered thousands of innocent babies.

Murdering innocent babies is bad

Your god is bad

What am I missing?

lriddle80

So, let's say Hitler repented and wanted forgiveness for all the mass murdering he did. Would you be able to forgive him?

Do you believe abortion is bad in every circumstance?

You say God murdered thousands of innocent babies, and it does appear that way. He still died for me and all those people in a torturous way that is equal to what those poor people went through.

I wouldn't die for anyone. I would forgive Hitler because Jesus forgave me and I am a terrible person who has done awful things and deserved hell. I can't get past that! I can't condemn God because he didn't condemn me. Everyone that I have ever met has condemned me in some way, but not God! He will never leave me or forsake me! So I try to give that love to others. I will do that until the day I earn my wages! And he will say We'll Done good abd faithful servant!

cofty

I don't understand your challenge re. Hitler.

He murdered many innocents - as did your god.

What has abortion got to do with god drowning babies. Is your defense of god reduced to something like - at least he isn't as bad as......

Jesus' death has no bearing on the subject.

You are still obfuscating.

God drowned thousands of innocent babies - therefore god is not love. Therefore the god and father of Jesus is a myth.

You have still to tackle the core of the question directly.

Anony Mous

He still died for me and all those people in a torturous way that is equal to what those poor people went through.

There are Bible scriptures where God metes out punishment way worse than what Jesus and other people in the Roman world went through. Romans were rather “humane” in comparison. I think Job went through torture worse than Jesus, lost 7 children so God can settle a bet. There are many people that died worse deaths across time, crucifixion was rather common.

You’re saying however that God killing himself, dying earlier than the robbers on his sides and then resurrecting himself 3 days is somehow sufficient to make up for killing thousands and thousands of people. That just doesn’t match, an eye for an eye, Jesus should thus die a thousand times and remain dead afterwards.

TonusOH

One point about the story of Job, that disturbs me: Job is described as a righteous person, someone who God is so impressed with that He boasts to the Devil about him. The Devil makes a very poor argument in order to get permission to destroy Job's life, and God is okay with this. Job, in the face of massive loss and overwhelming grief, stays loyal to God. This loyalty is rewarded by God agreeing to let the Devil ravage his body with disease and his mind with the lies and accusations of three "friends."

Job remains loyal, and insists that he will wait on God to explain his plight. Finally, God shows up and... brutally excoriates Job for having the temerity to expect an explanation from Him. He makes a long speech that is basically a "who do you think you are" rant, finally forcing Job --who has gone through all of this because God decided that it was okay-- to apologize for expecting an answer from this being that he had shown unwavering loyalty to.

We are to understand that this callous insensitivity was forgotten by Job after God returned him to his prior life, although his first ten children and numerous servants presumably remained dead. And I guess his wife paid for her wavering, having to birth another ten children. And note that I did not say Job forgave God. If he'd even thought of expressing forgiveness, God might have become so indignant as to vaporize the poor fellow.

The God of the Bible can turn your life completely upside-down on a whim, and you have no right to expect an explanation. And, if the book of Job describes real events, that is just what He did. I can't imagine spending an eternity around someone who has shown a propensity to do things like that. How long would it take to eventually empty the heavens?

lriddle80

I was trying to get you to think.

Anyway, *I* don't really have to tackle anything because this isn't my issue. I can believe that the tsunami happened and that God is love and that he loves and saves people and is *with* them in all kinds of suffering. He let's myriads of people die each day which he could have intervened, but he was most likely with them comforting them in a tangible way.

But, I don't believe you were really born again as you claimed. Tell me your salvation story and what led to you accepting Christ and receiving the Holy Spirit and how your life transformed and then I may continue.

cofty

I have no interest in trying to convince you of the genuineness of my christian conversion. (Typical ad hominem diversion)

You carry on believing that murdering thousands of innocent babies is an act of perfect love if that gives you comfort. Just don't expect anyone to take your beliefs seriously.

cofty

Hold on a minute...

He let's myriads of people die each day which he could have intervened

Your god did not fail to save thousands of innocent babies in the Asian tsunami: he purposefully murdered them with malice aforethought.

It was not a crime of omission but of commission.

I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion....

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