I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion.... (page 2)

Sea Breeze

@ Jeffro

Everyone recognizes the rules of logic, even Aristotle. But, that is not the question is it?

Where do YOU THINK the rules of logic come from in a chance, meaningless universe?

The loaded question is an irrational non sequitur that attempts to shift the burden of proof. The question assumes that logic can’t exist at all in a universe ‘based on chance’ (a form of false equivalence) and presents a false dichotomy with Christianity implied as the only alternative.

Sea Breeze

Jeffro,

I'm not trying to be difficult with you. It is a fair question with no assumptions. I'm attempting to find the source for your confidence in the rules of logic in a chance, meaningless and disinterested universe.

How did the rules of logic that you put great confidence in arrive for you and I to use?

Jeffro

🤦‍♂️ The ‘rules of logic’ arise from the basic understanding that ‘things are what they are and are not what they are not’. These are basic concepts that hold true irrespective of whether things ‘arise by chance’.

Sea Breeze

Jeffro,

Your first sentence is describing the law of non-contradiction. As a Christian, I can makes sense of this law becasue 2 Timothy 2: 13 says God cannot deny himself. Laws of logic are simply a description of how God thinks. Since I am made in his image, it follows that I possess certain preconditions of intelligibility to perceive these laws.

But, how do you know that laws of logic are true everywhere, at all places for all observers? How do chemical accidents like us even recognize these laws? The problem gets bigger when examining why you assume these laws are not subject to chance, location and perception. Have you been everywhere to verify your truth statement? Have you checked out all chance universes to verify this?

Your assumption of universality has no basis, and so your confidence is not consistent with your worldview.

You may not acknowledge God like I do, but at least my worldview is consistent.

Jeffro

🤦‍♂️ your addition of a bunch of religious superstitions - piled on top of the same fundamental things about reality that we recognise in common - are actually superfluous.

Sea Breeze

These are basic concepts that hold true irrespective of whether things ‘arise by chance’

Jeffro,

Saying it's true because it's true is circular. Are you intending to say that the rules of logic are just a property of the universe? You still haven't answered my fair question as to why you have such confidence in the laws of logic in a chance & meaningless universe.

Don't you want to present a logical and reasonable alternantive to "superstitions" as you put it?

How does a physical chance universe produce things that are non-physical (like reasoning) and things that are imperviouse to chance?

Is a consistent worldview even important to you ?

How logical is that?

Jeffro

I’m saying, correctly, that your unevidenced unfalsifiable religious superstitions add nothing but additional assumptions about the nature of the universe.

Sea Breeze

Then why don't you please just explain it so I can be free of these superstitions?

Saying laws of logic are true because they are true doesn't explain anything. Is that all you got?

Jeffro

I see no reason to play into the charade that the superstitions are necessary or relevant to better understanding the nature of the universe. All you need to do to stop holding the superstitions is to suspend belief in an idea until there is actual evidence to support it. Using arbitrary Bible verses as axioms does not actually constitute evidence.

I find it interesting that after the cult people still hold on to religion....

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