Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto 154 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Finkelstein

  To argue that the period of desolation was 49 years is utter nonsense

  because the Bible states emphatically that this was to be a full period

  of 70 years and to say anything else simply amounts to revisionism

  and is dishonest.

  But the total 70 years of desolation was not the case as history shows.
  

  The archeological findings as well the bible itself supports the year 586 not 607 , just because a prophet said something doesn't make it to be true or factual..

  There are many mythological expressions told by the ancient Hebrews that were false or fictional stories upon their original intent, to accept all of these stories as fact is nonsensical, irrational and intellectually dishonest.
  
• 

  scholar

  johnamos

  Agreed. Jeremiah's prophecy herein is addressed to five surrounding nations of Judah and including the nation of Judah that they could escape Jehovah's judgement by submitting in servitude to the then reigning king, Nebuchadnezzer. In this chapter, there is no connection of the 'seventy years as such as in the case of the preceding chapter 25 which was also addressed to the nations including Judah which altogether had to serve Babylon 70 years. When one considers the duration of the Babylonian monarchy from Nebuchadnezzer to Belshazzar you get an overall period of 66 years which could be rounded up to 70 years representing the Babylonian Dynasty. This scenario would easily account for the 70 years ascribed to Tyre's servitude as a round number.

  However, Jeremiah's texts of the seventy years are applicable to Judah alone giving precise details as to its chronology and its nature that of not only being one of servitude but of exile and desolation with a precise beginning and end. These factors are not present with those oracles given to the Nations roundabout.

  There is simply no basis, in fact, to claim that the 70 years for Judah ended in 539 BCE or began in the fuzzy date of 609 BCE. How you apply to the other nations the servitude to Babylon for 70 years is a matter of speculation for the Bible provides no details on that subject.

  Current scholarship of late 2018 dismisses the 539 BCE interpretation of Babylonian domination solely applicable to the seventy years of Jeremiah arguing rather that this period refers to the Exile ending ith the Return under Cyrus in 537 BCE

  Again I repeat in the light of the 70 years' textual corpus, the theory that the 70 years ended in 539 BCE is impossible and is simply bunkum!!!!

  scholar
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  scholar

  Finkelstein

  The historical, biblical and archaeological proves that Judah was depopulated and desolated for 70 years as foretold by Jeremiah, witnessed by Daniel and confirmed by Ezra and the later historian Josephus.

  Current archaeology accepts 586 BCE rather than 587 BCE and does not accept 607 BCE at this stage.

  The Bible does not support Mythology and neither does the celebrated WT scholars and the said scholar.

  scholar
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  BORG OFF

  Johnamos

  excellent work, fantastic explanation, thank you
• 

  St George of England

  Very interesting. You may also wish to ask the WT Society why they changed the date for the destruction of Jerusalem from 606 BCE to 607 BCE when they realised that the arithmetic didn't work. They had the answer, 1914, so changed the date from 606 to 607 rather than give up on their preferred answer.

  This quote from "Light Vol 1" (1930):-

  The article then sets forth at length the Scriptural proof, and the understanding thereof, reviewing the history of the world from 606 B.C. down to October, 1914. The article then continues: "Studying God's Word, we have measured the 2520 years, the seven symbolic times, from that year 606 B.C. and have found that it reached down to October, 1914, as nearly as we were able to reckon.

  I think they went to 607 in about 1942 with the book "The Truth Shall Make You Free" if I remember correctly.

  George
• 

  johnamos

  Quote - Jeremiah's prophecy herein is addressed to five surrounding nations of Judah and including the nation of Judah that they could escape Jehovah's judgement by submitting in servitude to the then reigning king, Nebuchadnezzer - End quote

  If you think there were only FIVE, then read Jeremiah 25:17-29!

  Quote - Jeremiah's texts of the seventy years are applicable to Judah alone - End quote

  Not so!

  [Jeremiah 25:11... and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years]
  

  [Jeremiah 25:17 And I proceeded to take the cup out of the hand of Jehovah and to make all the nations drink to whom Jehovah had sent me]

  Quote - There is simply no basis, in fact, to claim that the 70 years for Judah ended in 539 BCE or began in the fuzzy date of 609 BCE. - End quote

  The basis is that the 70 year servitude for the nations (including Judah) was to be in subjection to Babylon.

  Were the nations (including Judah) in subjection to Babylon when Assyria was still the 2nd world power?

  No there were not, even Babylon itself would have been in subjection to Assyria.

  Were the nations (including Judah) in subjection to Babylon when Babylon was the 3rd world power?

  YES they were!

  Were the nations (including Judah) in subjection to Babylon when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians? (Medo/Persia then became the 4th world power.)

  No they were not!

  You have read in the WTS excerpts that I cited that the 70 years 'represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination" and that that "domination ended for Babylon in 539 when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians". Therefore the servitude for the nations (including Judah) to be in subjection to Babylon had to be during the time of Babylon's greatest domination period as the 3rd world power which is the time period that the WTS says represents the 70 years, which is 609 - 539.

  How is it that you say 609 is a fuzzy date? The WTS clearly state that the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination and that that domination ended for Babylon in 539. What is fuzzy about adding 70 years to 539 and arriving at the year 609?
  

  
  
• 

  punkofnice

  I would start at grass roots. Is the Bible really worth bothering with? What is the origin of this collection of writings?

  For my part, I am now convinced the Bible isn't anything but a collection of writings by some people. Nothing divine. 607 or not, once one concludes that the Bible is nothing more than tripe, the rest is easy.
• 

  Sanchy

  punkofnice: I would start at grass roots. Is the Bible really worth bothering with? What is the origin of this collection of writings?

  Indeed, as far as WT's 1914 chronology goes, it completely falls apart at Daniel Ch. 4. The amount of mental gymnastics required to connect anything written in that chapter with 1914 and 607 is astounding.
  
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  Finkelstein

  Scholar says the Bible doesn’t support mythology .

  An intellectually dishonest statement, the Bible is full of ancient mythology mixed with some factual events in history, documented in archeology .

  Thats how we know you and other people are intellectually dishonest idiots.
• 

  btlc

  I tried to read the whole thread (and more) about 607 vs 587 thing, and I'm a little confused because I can't find any mentioning of the Zechariah book. On the page 1662 of the NWT says:
  Writing completed (BCE): 518
  Time Covered (BCE): 520-518
  Reading the book, and assuming the time as linear:
  1:12 - "70 years" still on (520. BCE, 2nd year of Darius)
  7:5 - "70 years" just ended (518. BCE, 4th year of Darius)
  which gave us 587. BCE as 1st year of 70 years period, according to NWT? Am I missing something?