Need Help: My Correspondence with the Headquarters

by Lobsto 154 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Alex Williams
    Alex Williams

    Regarding 607 B.C.E ,its the date JWs came up with 1914 as the end of the gentile times,so if 607 is wrong then 1914 is wrong.First the Jews in first century had expectation of the Messiah why was this?


    Now the people were in expectation and all of them were reasoning in their hearts about John, “May he perhaps be the Christ?”

    The prophetess Anna “began giving thanks to God and speaking about the child to all who were waiting for Jerusalem’s deliverance.”

    The first-century Jews may have calculated the time of the Messiah’s arrival on the basis of the prophecy of the 70 weeks recorded at Daniel 9:24-27


    There are 70 weeks that have been determined for your people and your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, to finish off sin, to make atonement for error, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. 25 You should know and understand that from the issuing of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes·siʹah the Leader, there will be 7 weeks, also 62 weeks. She will be restored and rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in times of distress.
    26 “And after the 62 weeks, Mes·siʹah will be cut off, with nothing for himself

    Certain Jews believed that the 70 weeks covered the period from the destruction of the first temple in 607 B.C.E. to the destruction of the second temple in 70 C.E

    It cannot be confirmed that people in Jesus’ day correctly understood the prophecy of the 70 weeks. However, the Gospels provide other sound reasons why the people would have been “in expectation” of the Messiah.

    So which date was it 587 B.C.E or 607

    The Jews were banished for 70 years ,when did it begin ,google shows several dates to confuse ones who want the truth so lets look at scripture not google,


    2 Chronicles 36:20, 21,

    All the days it lay desolate it kept sabbath, to fulfill 70 years.+

    When were the Jews released? fall of 537 B.C.E., the Jews had returned to Jerusalem

    Google Showing results for what year did Cyrus II conquered Babylon

    Cyrus takes Babylon. In October 539 BCE, the Persian king Cyrus took Babylon, the ancient capital of an empire covering modern Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Israel. In a broader sense, Babylon was the ancient world's capital of scholarship and science

    Many here know the spill 2520 from 607 = 1914

    But wait we have Jesus pointing towards in the future to that date 1914 ,have anyone here ever read that bombshell? how did he predict 1914 as something special .

    Matt 24

    While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence*+ and of the conclusion of the system of things?”*+

    What exactly were they asking Jesus here,were they asking him when will he return from heaven to set up his Kingdom on earth? some translations read the sign of your coming and the end of the world .,NO the Jews were being stepped on under rule and wanted Gods earthly Kingdom restored right then now thousands of years later,proof of that is a question they asked Jesus AFTER he was resurrected ;

    Acts 1
    He was seen by them throughout 40 days, and he was speaking about the Kingdom of God.6 So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?

    If the question in Matt which was much earlier was what will be your sing of you coming why would they now ask him
    [Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?]

    They couldn't have asked him about his COMING since they didn't expect he was going anywhere after he was resurrected

    He already told them his Kingdom was heavenly not earthly over and over again

    John 18:36

    Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world

    So he was to leave and not set up an earthly Kingdom but set up in heaven,but when?

    He told then the time period when his Kingdom would be established

    Matt 24

    For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,

    What was he speaking of here ,was it not a world war? yes the war of 1914

    2520 from 607 = 1914

    No other date fits many who go to Church dont believe Gods Kingdom has already been established and dont think about it but only going to heaven

    In contrast Jesus who they claim to follow said :

    And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations,+ and then the end will come.

    The Kingdom has to already be established to preach about it logically ,but you never hear about that in a Church,what are Church goers being fed since Jesus said after his Kingdom is born in heaven he would appoint a Slave to fed his sheep.

    Matt NWT
    45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?+ 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so!+ 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

    JWs say he appointed them as the slave to fed his sheep after he came or became King in 1914 ,he didnt come again to the earth in 1914 ,he didnt go anywhere ,

    The Churches dont believe this but still look for Jesus to return or come again so this means no slave has been appointed in Christendom to fed they followers since he hasn't returned ,\.Think of what that means ,Jesus is in heaven and has not provided a Shepard to feed his sheep if we are to believe the Churches teachings because he clearly said;

    his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time

    whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food

    whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them

    Young's Literal Translation
    'Who, then, is the servant, faithful and wise, whom his lord did set over his household, to give them the nourishment in season?

    The point is since he hasn't returned according to Church teachings then his sheep are starving spiritually because he said when he return he will appoint a slave to fed his sheep,he certainly would need to appoint a slave when he returned for a supposed rapture since all his followers would be saved and wouldn't need to be fed spiritually .

    So JWs teaching makes more sense that 1914 the Kingdom was established ,he then soon after appointed a slave to care for his sheep and condemned all the Churches who were unfaithful while blessing the 1914 war ,remember it was addressed in a form of a question;

    Darby Bible Translation
    Who then is the faithful and prudent bondman whom his lord has set over his household, to give them food in season?

    The WTBTS proved to be the faithful one not the Churches

  • LeeT

    This was referenced in the response letter.
    Chronological List of Texts From the First Millenium B.C. Babylonia, by Janos Everling

    I've dug up the .pdf and it's brilliant.
    Scroll to Page 24 where the Neo-Babylonian texts start. Note the sheer quantity of texts in each year of the conventional secular chronology. Where are all the texts from the 20 years the Society incorporates into its chronology? They're not there, there are none, these years don't exist.

  • LeeT

    Live life dangerously.
    Incur the wrath of Tony Morris.
    Do a short Uni course for free.
    Undermine your confidence in Jehovah's organisation.
    Study "The Fall and Rise of Jerusalem" with Oded Lipschits.

  • scholar


    I wish to inform you and all other posters that scholar has done this course a couple of years ago when it was first introduced on this forum. I recommend that all critics do that course and purchase the main textbook, The Fall and Rise of Jerusalem by Obed Lipschits, 2005, Eisenbrauns.

    I found the course most interesting especially the many visuals as these gave a good overview of the geopolitical reality especially during the time when Babylon came to power. What struck me was the simple fact that the seventy years could not have begun in either 606 or 609 BCE. The text book gives 586 BCE for the Fall and makes very little mention of the seventy years almost complete silence

    In order to obtain a Certificate, one has to complete online quizzes and assessment, in my short essays I argued for our understanding of the 70 years and the fact that the Judah was totally desolate.

    I strongly recommend that all critics of WT Chronology do this course and should a requisite for anyone who wants to say something about the Chronology of the that Period-the last days of Judah. Doug are you paying attention to this?


  • scholar


    Thank you for the catalog list of Babylonian texts. I notice that all of the regnal years for Nebuchadnezzar are now listed so with all of this information for both the reign of Nebuchadnezzar and his successors, Do any of these texts shed any light on the 70 years especially since WT critics claim the 70 years are only for Babylon and not for Judah? Further, in connection with the listings of the 43 regnal years for Nebuchadrezzar, Is there any mention of the 7 years of vacancy when neb lost the kingship according to Daniel ch.4?


  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    The Mother of Nabonidus: On two stelae found in Harran, one in 1906 and one as recently as 1956, we have what appears, stylistically, as a tomb inscription of the mother of Nabonidus. …

    I am Adad-guppi', the mother of Nabonidus, king of Babylon, a devotee of Sin, Ningal, Nusku and Sadarnunna, my gods, with whom (lit.: with whose godhead) I always, even since my childhood, took refuge, I who-(even) in the 16th year of Nabopolassar, king of Babylon, when Sin, the king of all gods, became angry with his city (i.e., Harran) and his temple, and went up to heaven and the city and the people in it became desolate. …

    From the 20th year of Ashurbanipal, king of Assyria, when I was born, until the 42nd year of Ashurbanipal, the 3rd year of his son Ashur-etil-ili, the 21st year of Nabopolassar, the 43rd year of Nebuchadnezzar, the 2nd year of Awel-Merodach, the 4th year of Neriglissar, during (all) these 95 years in which I visited the temple of the great godhead of Sin, the king of all the gods in heaven and in the nether world, he looked with favor upon my pious good works and listened to my prayers, accepted my vows. …

    I have obeyed with all my heart and have done my duty (as a subject) during the 21 years in which Nabopolassar, the king of Babylon, the 43 years in which Nebuchadnezzar, the son of Nabopolassar, and the four years in which Neriglissar, the king of Babylon, exercised their kingship, (altogether) 68 years ; I have made Nabonidus, the son whom I bore, serve Nebuchadnezzar, son of Nabopolassar, and Neriglissar, king of Babylon, and he performed his duty for them day and night by doing always what was their pleasure . He also made me a good name before them and they gave me an elevated position as if I were their real daughter. …

    (Postscript :) She died a natural death in the 9th year of Nabonidus, king of Babylon . Nabonidus, king of Babylon, the son whom she bore.

    Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament (Third Edition), pages 560, 561, James B. Pritchard (editor), Princeton University Press (1969)

  • scholar


    You have misread me. Jer. 27 addresses five nations excluding Judah whereas Jer.25 lists many more of the surrounding nations. I did not mean to say that there are only five surrounding nations in total. try to improve your comprehension skills which are lacking as shown also by your poor understanding of the Society's reply.

    What you fail to realize that Jer. 25.11 is exegetically difficult and is challenging to translate into English for this is shown by comparing different Bible translations. This verse requires interpretation aided by comparing it with Daniel 9:2 and 2 Chron. 36:20-23.

    The NWT with Ref. 1984 has the 'seventy years ' without a prefix, standing alone and could either be applied to 'this land' or 'these nations' or in combination of both terms. For example, note how it is rendered in The New English Bible,1970:"For seventy years this whole country shall be a scandal and a horror; these nations shall be in subjection to the king of Babylon".

    The Bible in Living English by Steven Byington: "and all the country shall become a desolation, and they shall be in slavery among the nations seventy years".

    A New Translation Of The Bible by James Moffat: "The whole of this country shall be a waste and a horror and for seventy years the people shall be subject to the king of Babylon". BIG problem here!!!!!! Do you get the point?

    I have repeatedly told you that the 70 years does indeed represent a period of Babylonian domination in combination with an Exile to Babylon and the Desolation of the land from the Fall in 607 BCE until the Return in 537 BCE. Further, all of those surrounding nations came under Babylonian domination right up to the time of the end of the Babylonian monarchy which came to its end in 539 BCE.

    The date 609 BCE is a fuzzy date in terms as to whether it properly constitutes the end of the Assyrian Empire and has nothing to do with Jeremiah's seventy years prophecy.


  • Finkelstein

    Scholar here posting on this thread is a dishonest individual who's being intentionally dismissive to the facts regarding what happened to Jerusalem during the overthrow accession by Nebuchadnezzar and that's why he says the desolation started in 609 and the final destruction of Jerusalem occurred in 607 like the novice and corrupt Watchtower executive writers.

    Even the bible says the final year of this destruction occurred in Nebuchadnezzar's 19th year of rein 586 BCE.

    He's very selective to what he believes as you can tell.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason



    How can that date be proven?


  • scholar


    If I was a dishonest individual I would not have completed the online course 'The Rise and Fall of Jerusalem' by the Tel-Aviv University and are you willing to enroll in that course of study?

    Further, my friend Doug Mason will vouch for my honesty and integrity.


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