Steve Hassan. Can some one verify if this is true.

by joe134cd 98 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • cofty

    What an annoying voice. I would pay him $400 to stop talking.

  • bohm

    Okay so what are the facts of the matter?

    1) Steven Hassan charge too much:

    I googled and found a random psychiatrist who charged more than Hassan per hour. I think 400 USD is WAY too much, but it appears to be in line with what other psychiatrists charge, in particular "big name" psychiatrists.

    2) Various allegations about NLP:

    This does not appear to hold water as Hassan many times speak out against NLP

    3) Other professionals speak out against Hassan:

    I think this is the most substantial charge. For instance:

    "Dr. Cathleen Mann, who holds a doctorate in psychology and has been a licensed counselor in the state of Colorado since 1994 points out, "Nowhere does Hassan provide a base rate and/or any type or accepted statistical method defining his results...""

    I think this quote raises some questions. Firstly, it is very vague. Is it really expected that a mental health professional provide such statistical evidence for his or her methods? How is that supposed to be evaluated, exactly? (hundreds of patients with a control group?). That seems to be a nearly impossible standard.

    Secondly, who is Cathleen Mann? She does not mention where her PhD is from on her personal website(!!!), but from her linkedin her PhD is from "Walden University. Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.), Psychology, usually us usually"

    I could not find any scientific work she did in her PhD program. On top of that, Walden University is an online university with a history of controversy. From it's wikipedia page it does not exactly appear to be a powerhouse in the psychology department:

    Not accredited[edit]

    I think the critique of Hassan smells.. it is verging on being false (the hints Hassan engage in or support NLP) and supported by quoting "experts" who has degrees from online universities with a controversial reputation...

  • bohm

    Yah okay this just keeps getting worse and worse.

    So they guy who is likely to have written the article is "Rick Alan Ross". From wikipedia:

    Ross faced charges of unlawful imprisonment over a 1991 forcible deprogramming of United Pentecostal Church International member Jason Scott; a jury acquitted him at trial. In 1995, a civil lawsuit filed by Scott resulted in a multimillion-dollar judgement against Ross and his co-defendants. Later, Ross and Scott reached a settlement in which Ross agreed to pay Scott US$5,000 and provide 200 hours of professional services at no charge.
    Ross was the only deprogrammer to work with members of the religious group Branch Davidian prior to the Waco siege; some scholars later criticized his involvement with the siege.

    Okay, so a deprogrammer who was part of the Waco fuckup.

    Since Hassan criticize deprogrammers left and right for unethical practices it is not hard to guess why he might not like Hassan.

    On top of that Rick Ross appears to have absolutely no professional education (his bio list him as never having attended college) which makes it kind of funny he criticize Hassan for his lack of training...

    Regarding the fees this Is Hassans own response:

    As for the accusations, my current fees are not $500 as Ross claims. I charge half that for an hour of counseling and have done so for quite some time. In response to his suggestions that I am unethical in my dealings with clients, I want to assert that I abide by the ethical guidelines of my professional organizations including the American Counseling Association. Every person I have ever worked with has known what I charge in advance and has agreed to it. In recent months, in accordance with the new federal HIPAA guidelines, clients must sign a written contract that discloses all necessary information, if they wish to work with me.'s%20Response%20to%20Rick%20Ross's%20Personal%20Attack.htm

  • slimboyfat

    Excellent work bohm, checking the background, and confirms what I suspected was the situation.

    Hassan is qualified, his charges are clear up front, and people are not pressured. On top of all that his charges are apparently not atypical. I don't see much ground for complaint here.

    You could have also mentioned that the accusations of plagiarism are unfounded as anyone who has read his books knows. He may not use academic footnotes, but his text is full of references and acknowledgement of the work of Lifton and others. He at no point pretends to have developed these ideas himself.

    I would argue there are problems applying some of his recommendations to JWs because JWs are somewhat different and less extreme than some of the other groups he deals with. Plus his focus is helping families remove loved ones from cults, whereas, more typically, unhappy JWs are trapped in the religion precisely because of their families. These are more criticisms of the applicability of Hassan's work to JWs than criticisms of his work in itself.

  • jacobm

    He's gotta make a living. He is supposed to be one of the most knowledgeable about cults. That $400 is the same amount an 'OK' lawyer would charge (per hour). Ya, it was funny how when his new book came out and interviewers would mention his old one, he would make sure we all new that was the old one. Buy the new one! LOLZ

  • cofty
    He's gotta make a living

    $400 per hour is more than "a living".

    That $400 is the same amount an 'OK' lawyer would charge (per hour)

    He isn't a lawyer or a psychiatrist or a psychologist. He is a "counselor".

    he would make sure we all new that was the old one. Buy the new one!

    Apparently large chunks of the new one is a copy-paste of the old one.

  • Ruby456

    counseling is often provided free of charge by local GP services here in the UK and charities will often provide counselors for between £10 and £20 per session. I would never pay any more than that for counselling.

  • Ruby456

    bohm, slim

    Cathleen Mann is used by the court system as an expert witness. what are you guys playing at? I wonder how much she charges ordinary clients?

    Areas of Expertise
    Court qualified as an expert in the area of high demand groups (cults) and family, child custody, and individual issues.
    Consultation support for lawyers.
    Investigations and reports.
    Extensive legal testimony experience.
  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    $400/h for a consult is about average, I charge $200/h for a tech consult, your mechanic charges $120-180/h for looking at your car ($350-400 at your nearby Mercedes dealership)

    $2500-5000 for a day + expenses is also pretty cheap for a corporate speaker, especially when it involves legal stuff, $50k is your average expert witness fee at a trial. Hell, I charge $2k/day + expenses and I'm promoting my own product, it's not unheard of that a good corporate speaker will charge $10k or more per day.

    It does sound like someone got in a fight. Regardless of it's truthiness, trying to dig up dirt on your competition is just bad form.

  • Ruby456

    anony mous

    so do you recommend Hassan for counselling? edit: I have one of his books only and think that is sufficient

    edit: Hassan named our pain and this gave us validation but in all honesty he was talking about the moonies not Jehovahs witnesses. its time to let go of him and use others who may be a better fit for what we are going through.

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