Steve Hassan. Can some one verify if this is true.

by joe134cd 98 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  bohm

  Ruby:

  I am just trying to get to the bottom of this. I agree Cathleen Mann is recognized as a court expert and according to her linked profile she has worked professionally with mental health issue for years, however it is difficult to assess exactly what being a court expert means in terms of her capacity as an expert. For instance, Monica Applewhite who testified on behalf of the WT during the Australian royal commission is also a recognized court expert, but she didn't exactly strike me as being very competent.

  When Cathleen Mann is quoted in the article as speaking out against Hassans lack of "statistical validation" it is clear she is used because of her scholarly credentials (notice it says she has a PhD and Hassan is criticized for his lack of higher academic training). The issue I am bringing up is to take her own description from the webpage:

  "I have an earned doctorate in psychology with a dissertation on a forensic related topic. "

  That quote raises alarm bells: what school? what topic exactly? Did she do any scientific work relating to cults?

  I have been unable to find any scientific work she carried out during her PhD program and she obtained her PhD from a controversial online campus. That is pretty alarming, as the only thing that substantiates her call for "statistical validation" is her credentials.

  On top of that, if the article criticize Hassan for his methods not being effectively validated, how then about the author of the article (Ross) who has *no* professional training whatsoever and is a known deprogrammed (kidnapping and unlawful imprisonment)? Are THOSE methods statistically validated or considered ethical? Presumably not at all, in which case it all seems pretty hypocritical...

  Where this leaves us is the 400 USD for consulting. This is a lot I agree, and enough for me not to consider his services. But it is a little less per hour than an experienced lawyer and a lot less than a top-end lawyer. How much do other psychologists charge? (I was easily able to find a random psychologist who charged more). Is it unreasonable for Hassan to charge the same amount as other psychologists because he is working with people who need his services? Would that not apply equally well to all people who worked with health?

  If Hassan said he was the *only* person who could help someone in a cult and charged 400 USD/hour there might be a point, but I can't recall hearing that asides him saying he suggests people should talk with professionals about their cult problems (sound advice) and not hire deprogrammers (que author of the article).
• 

  dozy

  It does seem a lot of money - I wish I got paid $400 an hour. I guess if people are prepared to pay that then fine. Personally I haven't read his books , though I have seen a few interviews on Youtube etc.He has found a profitable niche and is working it hard.

  I suppose if you consider how much time , money & energy people who have been involved in cults have invested then a few hours counselling is probably justified if it helps them get closure. To get to the higher levels in Scientology , for example , costs tens of thousand of dollars.

  I would imagine ( and I'm no expert here ) that because of the niche he is working , then he isn't going to be doing 60 hours a week of interviews , 52 weeks a year. It would be feast or famine - bits & bobs here and there. I know an engineering consultant in a very specialised field who probably charges the same hourly rate but he has lots of work for a month then could wait a year for his next major job.
• 

  Ruby456

  bohm

  For instance, Monica Applewhite who testified on behalf of the WT during the Australian royal commission is also a recognized court expert, but she didn't exactly strike me as being very competent.bohm
  

  the court did not think she was incompetent. And isn't this the same Monica Applewhite who helped Candace Conti win her case against the Watchtower? In the Candace case she was objective enough to testify against the Watchtower despite being hired by them.

  the thing is that Hassan is not recognized as a court expert and this ought to set off alarm bells.
• 

  biblexaminer

  Was Jesus recognized as a court expert?
• 

  bohm

  Ruby: Her work was criticized in strong terms by the commission and she was asked to redo parts of her report if memory serves.

  My point is that we have one expert, Cathleen Mann, who says: "Nowhere does Hassan provide a base rate and/or any type or accepted statistical method defining his results...". Okay that might be true, but does Mann herself provide such a rate for her services? (certainly not on her website). Does the author of the article provide such a rate? (nowhere as far as I can tell). Is it then common practice a counselor has to provide such rates?

  It is very hard to see what the actual substance is behind such a claim and to me it just seems like they are trying to drum up controversy without substance.

  Do you think it is fair that a person with absolutely no credentials to speak of (he never finished college) is criticizing Hassan for HIS supposed lack of credentials even though Hassan has actually received professional training?

  
  

  
  

  
  
• 

  bohm

  Biblexaminer: Lol.

  The guy who wrote the article, Rick Ross, is like Jesus in that he once got himself in legal trouble and never finished college...

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Alan_Ross
  
• 

  Ruby456

  bohm

  Okay that might be true, but does Mann herself provide such a rate for her services? (certainly not on her website). Does the author of the article provide such a rate? (nowhere as far as I can tell). Is it then common practice a counselor has to provide such rates?bohm

  obviously she must have asked for his rates and his research. I guess if you were to ask Cathleen Mann she would provide you with links.

  the courts system would not use her if she could not back up her work and rates.

  btw what criticisms did the Australian commission direct towards Applewhite? from what I read there was nothing of any substance that was leveled against her. and she was a key witness for candace conti against the WTS despite being hired by them as their expert witness.

  this ross guy doesn't come across as credible.
• 

  bohm

  Ruby: According to Hassan, he was never contacted regarding his rates for the piece...

  I am actually questioning the call for statistics to back up his claims of success because it seems unreasonable. According to Hassan he has a high rate of success (but he only counts cases that reach the intervention stage), however what exactly is she asking for?. In order to probably evaluate outcome of his interventions statistically, Hassan would have to get two populations of cult victims, then divide them in two groups (experiment and control), perform his type of intervention on one group and another on the other group and finally evaluate the outcome. This would need to be done with many patients in each groups to get any sort of statistical confidence; obviously an undertaking nobody could be expected to perform.

  Regarding Cathleens experience in the courtroom: I don't know what it takes to be used as an expert witness in the courtroom but more specifically we don't know what she was testifying about exactly... I think it is more direct to look at what she actually accomplished during her PhD and how that relates to cults. So first off her PhD was not about cults as far as I can tell from the title and I can't find any work she has published. If she has really not published anything that is a very bad sign indeed.

  Re. Applewhite: just look at the video where she gives her testimony. Stuart grills her for not having the facts straight and she is given about a month to fix the errors in the report.
• 

  Ruby456

  I've watched the video in the past and did not find anything substantial against Dr Applewhite.

  best wishes re your investigations.

  Is Hassan still doing interventions on behalf of xjws? for example this

  Steve Hassan has charged families tens of thousands of dollars and provided questionable results. One family that recently complained about Steve Hassan cited total fees charged of almost $50,000.00 and said that the very expensive intervention effort ended in failure.cofty

  if he is then I find it incredible that he thinks Jehovahs witnesses are a cult in the sense that intervenionist tactics are required to the tune of $50,000. this makes me suspicious about his credentials.