Steve Hassan. Can some one verify if this is true. (page 4)

slimboyfat

Ruby I think you are correct JWs are very different from the Moonies and no where near as bad judging by his experience. The problem with lumping all such groups together is it can seem as if they are all the same. JWs do not engage in sleep deprivation or group confessions and blackmail or sex with cult leaders or any of the more extreme cult behaviour.

What they do on a massive scale is information control, shunning and stigmatisation. These are harmful practices that Hassan fairly highlights in relation to JWs.

I agree that Hassan's book is not ideal for JWs because an intervention type scenario (he promotes a milder, "strategic" form of this now) is not terribly appropriate for JWs.

Unlike many cult groups, I think the uncomfortable fact (for some angry former JWs) is that many JWs are very happy as JWs and they function well in normal society. Do such people need to be rescued? You could argue they believe nonsense and they could do better in life. But that's true of many people. It's no warrant to go meddling in their lives.

On the other hand many people suffer as JWs for various reasons and could do with a helping hand out of the organisation. Reaching and helping those ones, without harassing the many JWs who are happy as they are, is bound to be a tremendous challenge for any sort of activist interested in thoughtful engagment.

slimboyfat

Joe, Mr Hassan is a self-employed businessman. As far as I know he never claimed to be a charity or any kind of volunteer. He offers a service. If it's good people will pay for it. If not they won't. If you thought he was some kind of self-less do good Saint who is not interested in making money then that is your mistake not his.

He is nothing like JWs. JWs try to control people, what they can read, who they can talk to, what they can do, plus take their time and money for the privilege.

Hassan helps people leave such control. And he charges money to help people get family out of cults.

nicolaou

I think the uncomfortable fact (for some angry former JWs) is that many JWs are very happy as JWs and they function well in normal society. Do such people need to be rescued?

Maybe, maybe not but they certainly need to be dissuaded from spreading the lies that tear families apart. So yes, even the happy, functional JWs need to be, if not rescued, made aware.

We mustn't give them a free pass.

Ruby456

slim I also find his stark distinctions between the authentic personality and the cultic personality objectionable - an individual could come away feeling very lacking in confidence in themselves if they cannot identify an authentic personality - I would argue that most people cannot do this as there may be no authentic personality at all. we all play different roles for different situations and we change and develop as time goes by - I'm not saying nothing stays the same but that if we put too much emphasis on finding an authentic personality we may be setting ourselves up for failure particularly as, in your quote, the expert who criticizes Hassan, says that ambiguity is at the foundation of being and I think that this can be a wellspring of creative effort. (hope I'm not misquoting here but trust that you will correct me if I am) - in a hurry at the moment

slimboyfat

Maybe, maybe not but they certainly need to be dissuaded from spreading the lies that tear families apart. So yes, even the happy, functional JWs need to be, if not rescued, made aware.
We mustn't give them a free pass.

You make a great point. The people who live happy lives as JWs do so, to some extent, at the expense of those who are discarded and shunned. So I can see an argument for confronting even happy JWs because their practices harm a minority who are mistreated.

But still I have a bias toward just letting happy JWs get on with being happy JWs. These are difficlt issues to weigh up. I don't think there are easy answers either way.

joe134cd

Slim=Wt is a self employed businessman. They just don't have to justify it. They have never claimed to be a business either. They offer a service. If it's good for people they will pay it. If not they won't. If you thought hassan was some selfless do good saint that was really concerned in showing Wt for what they really were then you are wrong. Its all about the money then that is your mistake not his.

Wt is nothing like hassan. They have removed bad influences from peoples lives e.g porn, drugs, bad association etc, and to this date have never done it for a $10000 a day fee.

Wt helps people leave very bad lives, and at least superficially don't charge people to get families out of these situations.

slimboyfat

Yes Ruby as a fully paid up poststructuralist I have problems with the idea of an "authentic" personality. We are multifaceted, complex and contradictory, at least I am (no I'm not).

To be fair to Hassan he heavily qualifies the idea of authentic personality opposed to cult personality. He spends a lot of time talking about looking for good aspects of cult experience, drawing upon it.

I think you hit upon the major problem of JWs looking to Hassan for advice or guidance. He is set up to help families rescue children who get messed up with cults as inexperienced young adulls. This may apply to a few young people who become JWs but it is not the typical scenario. Many JWs are trapped as JWs because of family not despite them.

cofty

I am constantly AMAZED and AMUSED by the number of whining freeloaders who think everything should be given to them for free. They expect boneless BBQ'd chickens to fly into their mouths!
Well, time to pay the piper, crybabies! FREEDOM ain't FREE! - NN

I am constantly bemused by the constant barrage of strawman arguments on this forum. Does anybody care about accurately understanding the position of the person they disagree with?

Nobody has suggested that Hassan should offer anything for free.

He is an ex-Moonie and a "counselor". His market is vulnerable and distraught people who despair for their relatives who are members of a cult. He charges $400 per hour for a skype call.

It is not unreasonable to suggest that his main motivation might be wealth. It appears that not a few people are blindly following the maxim that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

slimboyfat

It is not unreasonable to suggest that his main motivation might be wealth

So what? And can't it be both wealth and helping people? If he can charge $400 and people are willing to pay it, then why on earth should he charge $200 or $100?

What self-employed person tells a customer to pay less that they are prepared to pay? What employee tells his boss to cut his pay?

Are we going to go after lawyers and doctors next?

cofty

So what? And can't it be both wealth and helping people?

Steve Hassan. Can some one verify if this is true.

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