"The G.B. is neither inspired nor infallible"

by smiddy 114 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Listener

  The Governing Body makes important decisions collectively. How so? The members meet weekly, which fosters close communication and unity. ....And each member of that body views himself, not as the leader of his fellow brothers, but as one of the “domestics,” fed by the faithful slave and subject to its oversight.

  
  I'm glad they were able to explain that but it leaves them with a problem. They state that the individual GB members are domestics but when they make decisions as a group they are the FDS. Under this arrangement then it means that any of the other individual anointed, who are also domestics, can group together with other anointed and come to their own decisions collectively and be acting as the FDS. If the current GB group sees themselves as being bibliclly established then how could they argue that another group that establish themselves by the same method is not scriptural and as domestics would then be required to submit themselves to this other group?
  
  What would be even a bigger dilema is if this second group were able to argue that their decisions were more biblically correct. This might include the end times commencing at a future date, birthdays/mothers day etc. are okay, Jesus as mediator for all JWs, all are part of the New Covenant, all should partake, blood transfusions are a conscience matter etc.
  
  The WTBTS are by its own constitution, required to follow that group that adhere to the bible. The second group could rightly claim authority.
  
  What it means is that under the JW system, it is not just the GB that is responsible for ensuring that they establish doctrines and procedures in accordance with the Bible but also the rest of the anointed (who were demoted to domestics in 2013 and as individuals are still equal to the individual GB members) still have a responsibility to correct the current GB even though it requires them to do this as a group.
  
  The point is, that by calling themselves 'domestics' leaves themselves open to being usurped and the WTBTS has to decide which group is more biblical.
  
  
  
  
  
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  Fisherman

  .....the topic of Malawi versus Mexico:
  

  I have already pointed out in my previous post that the Mexican "cartilla" was and is nothing more than proof of military service (training). Let me explain: Unlike the US, Mexico, and many countries worldwide require young men of military age to be "drafted" for a period of time, even during peace time -some countries required 4 years military peace time service /training (call it what you like)- for the purpose of receiving military training, so that such are ready for war -and if war happens to break out at the time of the service - as the saying goes- "You're in the army now!" In Mexico,there was no other way out other than paying the officials or be forced into the army (Korean JW today have no way out). Buying the Malawi political card was different as wt saw it because according to wt, doing so violated christian neutrality and there was no other way out other than only violating christian neutrality (as wt saw it) which involved becoming part of a political party, paying a fee and being issued the card. If Mexican JW were faced with Malawi circumstances, same would apply, so the WT standard is the same. (Paying a fee to circumvent going to the army and paying a fee to circumvent becoming part of a political party is not the same as paying a fee to become part of a political party.)

  Regarding swearing an oath of loyalty, for example, to the US Constitution, is different than saluting a flag or participating in some act that is idolatry. The real issue that people object to is not a religious position in itself, but as people see it, when a JW is faced with duress, JW should abandon or betray their religious beliefs to save their skin. If it were for secular reasons, such act would be called being a coward, or treason.

  IN the JW, people mainly get DF for sex sins, etc - and JW do it anyway without fear of getting DF. I have never seen a case of someone getting DF for caving in to a BT. Usually such a person feels devastated and feels that he failed, etc, or they leave because they get angry and hurt.

  JW position is that a person cannot violate God's Law (as jw decide what is God's Law) unconditionally and being faced with death is not a condition. A person first needs to clearly identify and clearly understand what is wrong. If a person does not know, how can he decide what to do but if he knows or if he believes he knows, then he can choose. Should duress be a condition for violating God's Law? Paul disagrees, "We MUST obey God as ruler rather than men."
  
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  smiddy

  And hasnt the Anointed class increased in numbers these past years despite the Governing Body saying for decades that the number would be decreasing ? as the Great tribulation / Armageddon was drawing near ?

  Wouldnt that mean they were not spirit directed by Jehovah ?

  I wonder how many who claim to be of the Anointed class ,could come together as a united group to challenge the existing Governing Body members to their authority to preside over the Christian Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses.

  And what has always puzzled me is , why a person who claims to be of the Anointed class has no say whatsoever in their local congregations ,no priveledges and is generally viewed as suspect.

  However , when it comes to appointing a new GB member their is no question as to his claim to be of the Anointed class ,it is approved unanimously .

  Keeping in mind they are not inspired nor spirit directed . ....they can err.
• 

  Listener

  How different those faithful kings were from the leaders of other nations, men who were guided by human wisdom and short sighted strategy! Under Canaanite leadership,people did detestable things, which included incest, homosexuality, bestiality, child sacrifice,and gross idolatry.(Lev.18:6, 21-25).....Not all the kings who ruled God’s ancient people followed God’s instructions. Those who did not obey Jehovah refused to accept the guidance of God’s holy spirit,his angels,and his Word.In some cases, Jehovah disciplined or replaced those leaders.(1Sam.13:13,14) In his own due time,he appointed someone who would be superior to any of the men he had used thus far.

  
  The whole article is strange but I wonder why they chose to include this information about leaders of God's people. It demonstrates that 'Jehovah's chariot' does not stand still and will take action if his earthly leaders were not doing a good job and were either disciplined or replaced.
  
  This leaves open the idea that if the current GB/FDS has not been demonstrating wisdom and using short sighted strategies (e.g. child abuse policies leading to shame and costly payouts, the generation teaching, unwillingness to radically revamp current teachings, allowing apostasy to surface as a serious problem, the high rate amongst JWs on dependency of prescription medication, etc.). Notice that the above Watchtower quote states that under Caananite leadership detestable things occurred, it does not say that these leaders advocated such bad behaviour but just that it occurred under their watch. And the immediate sentence prior to this comment includes the words wisdom and short sighted strategy. IMHO using the term 'short sighted strategy' is unusual and on checking the CD Library, it has never been used before.
  
  Consider what the GB's short sighted strategy has resulted in today. The child abuse situation is obvious. Changing the publications being offered to a donation arrangement has resulted in a financial loss. Their current financial situation has resulted in serious cutbacks, even to the extent of reducing special pioneers and missionaries.
  
  Are they introducing the idea that If God replaced or disciplined leaders in the past, there is every reason to think that he would do the same today?
  
  Although there is just a suggestion of discipline/replacement in this issue, I don't recall when they have done this in the past.
  
  It has been mentioned before that there is probably a group of awake JWs in the organization that are able to print such obvious negative comments that could be applied directly to the org. and it goes without notice by the GB and other reviewers before it goes into print. It has also been mentioned here, although not for some time, that there are a core group at the top that want to grab authority from others at the top (possibly the legal department)
  
  Whatever the case, we have seen a huge amount of change already take place, and further changes taking place. It is certainly interesting times.
  
  But if they are going to get rid of a number of core doctrines, including 1914 then a way to do it would be with a new leadership and for those at the top that want to see these changes there is no option but to do this because the current GB are holding tight these undefendable ideas.
  
  Their problems have become so immense that they cannot continue to ignore them.
• 

  Listener

  Smiddy - I wonder how many who claim to be of the Anointed class ,could come together as a united group to challenge the existing Governing Body members to their authority to preside over the Christian Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses.

  
  This happened in Ray Franz's day but they were stamped out before it became an issue. It also happened in Rutherford's day and he was triumphant, bringing along with that, his own unique teachings. It is reasonable to expect this to happen again and even more so in these tumultuous times within the org., loosing both members and money.
  
  It could even be possible for those higher up in the organization to come up with a completely different understanding of anointed ones. Ray Franz believed that this should apply to all JWs and all should partake. I don't think it would be difficult to change these current biblical interpretations. For instance, those being chosen as Kings/Priests in heaven could apply only to Jesus apostles as it was to them that he spoke of this promise in the first place. Also in relation to the FDS being promised authority over all Jesus' belonging as a reward, it could apply to an earthly authority. This would mean that any of those who are not 'anointed' (under the current understanding of that word by the GB) at the top could challenge the authority.
  

  And what has always puzzled me is , why a person who claims to be of the Anointed class has no say whatsoever in their local congregations ,no priveledges and is generally viewed as suspect.

  
  It makes no sense if these anointed ones are considered to be working together as the body of Christ, a role far superior than any other. It would seem it has all been about the reigning in of the power structure but as hard as they may try, there are always vulnerabilities ready to be taken advantage of by those who have the capabilities and support.

  Keeping in mind they are not inspired nor spirit directed . ....they can err.

  
  And the question is whether it goes without discipline or leadership replacement with the aim to correct so many wrongs, by those that really believe it is God's earthly organization.
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  stavro

  I am amazed at their attempt to provide evidence proving that they are the FDS. They provide a short list outlining the best possible evidence that they can currently provide.

  They claim that their clearer understanding of scripture could only be made possible if they were been helped by holy spirit. However, they admit they are not inspired by holy spirit and as a consequence of this, their clearer understanding of scripture could actually be false. Am I missing something or have they just discredited the very evidence they are attempting to use?

  Not only do most religions claim to be in procession of the same evidence, they also have it in greater abundance.

  Most Christians also reject the watchtower's clearer understanding as lacking in sufficient scriptural support.
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  prologos

  after having slept a little over this admission of error in doctrine and procedure in the past, perhaps the "governors" of the Faithful & Discreet Slave realize that they find themselves in a terrible situation, having inherited some valuable assets, but a doctrinal house of cards, that will have to collapse, perhaps in their lifetime.

  They have responded by stopping the leaks, adding overlapping features to stretch, and supporting the whole by a lot of hot air. But the fervor, the energy the sense of urgency, of mission, (misplaced as it was) of the past is gone.

  To move forward in a meaningful way, they perhaps realize that there has to be a cleaner break from the past, (not just re-writing history), letting the talking snake-oil cum wt edifice collapse, deflate, one way or another, and statements like in par. 13 are an indication that the preparations to do that, the use of the demolition charges, seacocks , rip panels, are seen as an unavoidable possible future action.

  May be they picked the number 13 to symbolize their bad luck. 1 too far for organisational perfection, -- to be stuck with that wt inheritance.
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  jookbeard

  Fisherman; possession of a Malawi political card did not compromise a JW's neutrality as being in possession of it one was not favouring a particular political party, Malawi was a one party state ruled by a dictator, also Malawians were in receipt of UN aid and the population were required by the UN to posses a card when they went to receive their basic aid.There are an awful lot of pro jw myths about this.
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  Vidiot

  I gotta say, the more they "admit" how "fallible" they are whilst simultaneously insisting the rank-and-file obey their every word, the angrier I'm getting.
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  TD

  When has WT doctrinal errors resulted in deaths and abuse of JW?

  In January of 1954, the JW parent organization stated that gamma globulin was, "...in the same category as blood transfusion as far as Jehovah's prohibition of taking blood into the system is concerned."
  

  In September of 1958, the JW parent organization stated that serums, such as the diphtheria antitoxin and fractions such as gamma globulin were now allowed as conscience permits on the basis that they, "...did not nourish the body."

  In September of 1961, the JW parent organization stated that, "..regardless of whether it was whole blood or a blood fraction" and regardless of whether it was administered as a transfusion or as an injection, it was wrong to sustain life by means of, "..the various plasma proteins."
  

  The "misuse of blood" was at this point, a "disfellowshipping" offense and the steady flip-flopping back and forth on the question of post-exposure vaccines and other IgG based preparations resulted in needless deaths, one of which I am personally familiar with.