Masks Are Coming Off (page 5)

FFGhost

You really believe that you need a “government” to tell you not to murder.

Not to tell me! I know not to. It's the OTHER GUYS I'm worried about.

And regarding "how justice is best served", frankly, I'd rather take my chances with the government than with armed vigilantes. Ever see the old movie "The Oxbow Incident" with Henry Fonda?

The Rule of Law works. Not perfectly, not in all cases, but close enough. But it only works if you grant a segment of society the right to enforce it and impose consequences for those who break it.

You really believe that you need a “government” to prevent YOU from buying rotten fruit.

No. I want someone with authority to at least occasionally inspect fruit THE OTHER GUY sells with its rottenness disguised as he tries to make a quick buck. And with the authority to disincentivize Joe Rotten-Fruit-Seller from trying it again.

Again - the Rule of Law.

You believe that you need the “government” to put out fires.

I believe that trained firefighters would do a much better job than I would. And I believe it is in human society's best interests to have first responders operating on something other than a profit motive.

You seem to be advocating more for anarchy than libertarianism.

Anony Mous

But government isn't there to tell us what we all know is morally wrong. They are there to carry out justice - after the fact. There is very little government can do for your neighbor to not murder you, they can assign a police officer to every citizen, which would be government overreach, but it's unlikely even that will stop crime.

Likewise with COVID, assigning a mask to everyone did not stop the spread. Facts are that 95% of Americans masked up with or without a mandate, and places like Florida that never had a mandate, had higher rates of masking.

If we had to listen to government, Fauci said not to mask up in March-June 2020, many people did (hence there being a shortage). Masks reduce the spread where there are high incidences of cases. We have a vaccine, it is estimated anywhere between 30 and 70% of the population already has been in contact and thus have developed immunity naturally, people that have gotten sick have immunity.

If you tell people they need to wear a mask and socially distance and stay at home even after a vaccine has been made available to those at risk, why get a vaccine at all? There must be incentive to get the vaccine, not needing a mask is incentive.

FFGhost

what we all know is morally wrong

And there's the issue.

What, exactly, do we "all know"?/

My neighbor thinks it's "morally right" to take my car because, in his universe, he deserves it and I don't.

That is perhaps a silly example, but you don't have to travel far to find examples of moral gray areas where there is a wide range of what people consider to be "moral".

So, we elect people to write laws, we elect people to enforce the laws, and we elect people to judge actions according to the laws.

It makes for a far more efficient society, to delegate these powers. So long as the people they are delegated to are accountable, it works. Not perfectly, not always fairly, but most of the time it works well enough.

minimus

I think for some, masks are necessary. Isolation too. I have older friends that are very compromised. If they get this virus it surely could be a killer. They loved going out every week for dining and dancing. One year later they still remain isolated. Sad.

Anony Mous

@Ghost: If your actions infringe on my or other people's natural rights, then it's immoral. Otherwise it isn't. There is no grey area. If you believe taking other people's property is your right, then you are so far gone, you should be jailed and if no government does pursue or cares (which is currently the state in most cities in the US) you have the right to defend yourself.

The laws we enact in the US are primarily NOT about natural rights, but about either the taking away of those rights (which is always immoral) or the regulation of commerce and exchange of goods (for good or for bad). There are no moral laws, laws that aren't immoral can turn out to have immoral or moral effects, but the laws in and of themselves do not create or shape good morality.

And yes, we all "know" our moral rights and duties, they have been encoded in EVERY religious and other long-lasting books because from the beginning of time people have known inherently something is wrong about taking life, property and the pursuit of happiness from others except in the protection of those simple needs. That is not saying the entire set of religious text is correct, but when you distil and find the commonality of things across multiple ancient religions, you'll find that they always turn out to be the same "rules" which turn out to be how people express the inherent/animalistic feeling/drive we have to maintain life, society and the survival of the species.

joey jojo

Morph, at least you are honest, basically you don't give a f%@k whether masks work, or health professionals are right, no one is going to tell you what to do.

It sounds like you have watched too many movies. If you believe any society, including democratic ones makes you free, you are delusional.

Sadly for you, you live in a society that happens to contain other people besides yourself, who have to go to work, buy food, go to school etc. You enjoy a nice lifestyle because you and other people go to work and pay taxes. This all comes with an obligation to be respectful to others in your society that have the same rights as you.

The alternative is anarchy. Or is that what you and your gun-toting buddies want?

Disillusioned JW

I think that until Covid-19 case numbers (and Covid-19 related deaths) drop to less than 5% of their peak level and also until at least 50% of the population is vaccinated from Covid-19, people still should be required to a wear a mask. I think that dropping at this time the requirement to wear a mask would be disastrous.

minimus

Some people would be content to see mask wearing as a normal way of life. It’s not normal to think it’s wonderful to wear a mask. I’ll do if it’s necessary but not forever. And if Covid is less than 5% they will move the goal posts again and say it has to be 3 %.

Anony Mous

@disillusioned: why should people who are immune have to continue to wear masks? Don’t you believe that the vaccines work? Or do you believe as one of the leaders of the BLM movement and ally to many Democrats congress members a few days ago to his millions of followers: “it is a vial of death”.

ThomasCovenant

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210203-why-vaccinated-people-may-still-be-able-to-spread-covid-19

Masks Are Coming Off

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