Roe vs Wade Overturned by US Supreme Court! (page 13)

sloppyjoe2

@data dog, the point of viability according to medicine has nothing to do with the importance of life. As I posted earlier, if you support abortion or in my case just believe the freedom of the choice should be there, I acknowledge that the fetus would become a living breathing human being. Viability is the cutoff I agree with because at that point, the fetus can't survive outside the womb. I disagree with late term abortion, so there has to be a "cutoff" point somewhere.

redvip2000

The “viability” argument isn’t viable. I can take a sampling of modern humans, drop them in the wilderness and they are no longer “viable.” That doesn’t mean their lives aren’t important.

Sorry, but that's a really silly argument.

In any case, this is not about viability. This is about trying to figure out the point where a piece of living tissue has developed enough features that we would normally associate it with calling someone an individual.

MeanMrMustard

Don't know if this is really gaining traction... but LOL!

TonusOH

Well, that's one way to solve the problem.

MeanMrMustard

I couldn't help but laugh. It confirms that it's not really about the edge cases - you know, rape, incest, forced prostitution, medical reasons - this is about using abortion as contraceptive.

And to that - the response has always been : well, you could be responsible and not fuck around so much. Roe is overturned and just like that women start to think about consequences again. Hmmmmmmmmm.

DATA-DOG

Of course there is a scientific reference to being viable, but you cannot take a life without considering, at least in someway, the importance of life. You cannot separate the two. If you could, then we wouldn’t have laws against murder, or a concept of justifiable homicide.

The value of life is what is intrinsically tied to this entire argument, otherwise abortion/non-abortion wouldn’t be an issue because no one would care at all. We wouldn’t care about pregnant mothers who die, and we wouldn’t care about unborn children, or very young children who die, or old people in nursing homes separated from their family because of Covid.

Without the fundamental understanding that life has a value there’s no reason to care about anyone, except for how they may happen to benefit you in the moment. We may as well be lower animals if that’s how we view life.

DD

sloppyjoe2

This is the fundamental difference between anyone that is ok with abortion and those who are not. I am not speaking for late term abortion as I don't agree with that. For me viability is not a sustainable life yet and I accept that as a part of society, I agree with the freedom to choose. I don't accept abortion after that because I now feel there is sustainable life. But in this situation, we are going to disagree, I understand that.

Sea Breeze

Just for a little perspective here: OVER 90% OF DEMOCRATIC MEMBERS OF CONGRESS HAS VOTED FOR ABORTION UP UNTIL THE MOMENT OF BIRTH.

Polls show that the public is just the opposite. Fewer than 10% of Americans would go along with this. So, what gives? I believe the Wicked Witch of the West is responsible. She is the face of the Democratic Party. She rules her party with an iron fist. She has tried to be a benevolent dictator. A lot of people have fallen for it. But, she is just another tyrant.

The democratic party has run this country into the ground in just about every possible way. USA abortion laws are so extreme they are only matched by 6 countries in the world. North Korea and China are on that short list.

I realize that people for abortion reform are going to disagree about many details. But people of common sense realize that we must all pull together whenever possible and not forsake morality altogether.

I have a lot of relatives in Europe. They are not Christian. They are quasi atheist, agnostics with a Catholic believer here and there. But, they have common sense. We all get along great. They believe in families, marriage, right and wrong. Would they measure up to a biblical standard. No. (In reality no one can do it perfect) But, they have not thrown away their Christian culture of temperance, patience and peace-seeking either. Neither have embraced sycophantic dictators either.

I am not going to demonize someone who says abortion should be illegal after 22 weeks. I might expose faulty logic in that position. But so what, if that is where you are, then vote that way. Don't let people manipulate you into hating your opponents so much that you get pushed into a far more extreme position where your "approved" representatives must perform a partial birth abortion on the Senate Floor as a litmus test.

I think the average age for making abortions illegal in Europe is 14 weeks. It's time to restore some common sense to the United States. We are freedom lovers. We are also easily manipulated by experts who know what they are doing.

Just think about it: We were all believers at one time and were easily manipulated into ritually rejecting Jesus Christ and his contract for the forgiveness of sins every year! (See Mt. 26: 27-28)

Think about that. We just all went along with the leaders. One day, we woke up and realized we didn't have to. I think this issue is another one of those light bulb moments. It's time for Nancy to put her broom back in her San Francisco closet and watch the sun set.

Anony Mous

Here is the earliest born baby at 21 weeks: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/11/14/mom-delivers-earliest-premature-baby-ever-and-chooses-resuscitate-miracle-aughter-now-healthy-toddle/861386001/

Now Roe v Wade legalized abortion until 24 weeks, people on the left say that baby at that point is just "a clump of cells" that has "no cognitive capacity", it "cannot feel anything". Look at the picture and now tell me where you would put the limit. The baby at that point (21 weeks) can obviously cry, feel, see, hear etc.

Moreover, "the clump of cell" transplants are now possible at any point in pregnancy, there have been a few cases where the mom got killed in a car accident and the baby was transplanted and subsequently grew. Fetal transplants were first successful in 1922, more than a century ago.

So the case for abortion is really, really, slim, if you're going into surgery anyway, why not have the baby transplanted to a willing mother. Yes, if the mom is in danger, this has always been and remains legal, but that's literally a fraction of the pregnancies.

Diogenesister

DD Most folks seem to be falling for propaganda again. Morons attacking Police in LA where they can still get an abortion. 🤦🏻‍♂️

Reminds me of the BLM protests in London where they were all chanting "Don't shoot! Don't Shoot!" to the (obviously unarmed) British coppers! 🤦🏻‍♀️

Whilst I'm here I would also like to take issue with some of the people who have mentioned that they know people who have donated large amounts to orphanages.

Whilst extremely laudable, you cannot compare the relief you give to babies in terms of feeding, clothing and housing them, on a temporary basis, to the lifelong responsibility a mother has toward its child.

Lots of people on this board have talked about how rare birth through rape is. Maybe so. But rape itself is far from rare. Many women I know have experienced some form of sexual abuse at the very least. I was flashed at as a kid and myself and another woman had a man do a sex act on the tube with his naked dick (we reported him immediately and weirdly he didn't seem to care🙄)

And I don't even count those in my head when Im thinking of personal experience.

For example, for years I had what I termed a 'date rape'. But it wasn't. It was actual rape, which is to say all rapes are. I went out with a guy who lived on the next street. He then came around to my house - my flat mates were in - nothing happed - no problems - not my type and, I assumed, he felt the same. A few months later I saw him drive by as I came out of the station (and as I say he lived near me). He offered me a lift home. I suspected nothing, he went a slightly weird way but still in our direction, then he suddenly pulled in to a scrap yard. I fought. I thought maybe I screamed loud because we were pulled over by plain clothes coppers on my road....I thought were the cops following us? They kicked his tyres, asked to see his licence etc and asked if I was alright. Maybe the stop was a coincidence and they acted weird because I must have looked in shock

....I was 18. didn't say a thing and didn't report it.

So my long winded point is that many, many women don't report rape. So it follows that there are more babies than we realise created by, at the very least, coercion. Therefore also more abortions the result of rape than we realise.

Even if the mother gives the child up for adoption, the child may be curious about its biological parentage in later years. It may seek a relationship with its natural mother or father (it may need information for health reasons too). The relationship between mother and child is unique and - even if the victim of abuse or rape adopts it out - the interference with her rights, her life, her emotions, etc, lingers forever.

Roe vs Wade Overturned by US Supreme Court!

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