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by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho 209 Replies latest members meetups

  • TheWonderofYou

    As an untroubled contact to your father means very much for you, your original plan would be easier to handle.

  • Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
    Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

    @jp1692 Have you read Paul Grundy's account of the legal wrangling he went through to avoid a JC/disfellowshipping with the elders on jwfacts.com? Not much good came out of that, and he was disfellowshipped anyway - even with the very real legal threats he posed on the society.

  • jp1692

    I know Paul Grundy and am familiar with his story. In his own words, he tried to convince the elders "why disfellowshipping is wrong from a scriptural standpoint and aligns with cult behaviour." Look how that turned out for him.

    Paul concluded his story admitting:

    "Why did I go to so much trouble and stress instead of just disassociate myself? I strongly disagree with disfellowshipping and wanted to test every means possible to see if the elders can be encouraged to just leave former Jehovah's Witnesses alone."

    What did we learn from Paul's experience? As I said before, if you play their game, you will lose.

    My advice: Don't play.

    Here is an excerpt from the elders manual (which you can d/l from the ARC website):

    If the Accused Threatens Legal Action
    17. If the accused threatens legal action against the elders, the elders should suspend proceedings and promptly telephone the branch office. - Shepherd the Flock of God, p. 86
  • Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
    Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

    At the end of the day, I feel so feeble and like a nobody because of the way they've made me feel that threatening them with legal action will make me feel like a toddler going head-to-head with an armed bank robber, threatening to fire a water pistol at them.

  • jp1692

    I get how you feel. I've been there. Many of us here have been there.

    This is how they want you to feel. Psychologists call it: learned helplessness and the victim mentality. Cults deliberately cultivate this in their members to keep them controllable.

    But the reality is that you are NOT a little toddler and the elders are NOT "armed bank robbers."

    The only authority they have is the one that we have allowed. Decide that you are no longer under their authority and it disappears. I know this is easier said than done, but it can be done. Many of us here have done it and you can too.

    The one thing bullies can't stand (and the WTBTS is a typical bully) is to be challenged. Deep down, they have nothing but threats, intimidation and fear. True, they can coerce others to shun you because those people are still living under that cloud of fear, but they cannot force you to be who you are not. Only you can allow that.

    It takes courage to live an authentic life. But it is worth it. Once you've awaken, there's no going back.

  • wheelwithinwheel

    I suppose it all depends on what you are after. And how you want to live your life post meeting. If you want a showdown go in with your guns blazing and try and convince them they're wrong. Or menace them. Or don't show up. All of which will most certainly make them feel you need to be taken care of.

    Remember to keep the legal menace (i.e. suing them all personally for mental anguish and civil damages) for the outcome, if they aren't understanding and respectful towards you. And don't view this as just an empty menace. View it as a step you may need to take to protect you reputation and interests.

    If they tell you to leave the room for them to discuss, you wait for their decision. You may just be reproved or lose some privileges, maybe there will be nothing. However, if it's disfellowshipping IMHO then is the time make your legal position clear. Tell them you will be immediately consulting legal counsel and that it would be extremely unwise for them to announce anything concerning your situation precipitously. The society's direction to the elders in this situation is no announcement and contact the branch asap.

    I think you are over thinking this. Unless you have a history of problems with the elders. In which case they may be less understanding. But you've got this girl. You have a specific advantage. Most JWs, unless they have elder family have no idea how this all works. If you had time you could download the elders manual and read through it to clear up any details of the rules of play. But be confident! The commenters here have given you direction, it just depends how you want to play it.

  • jp1692

    Here's a link to the ARC website.

    The first item should be a link to a marked up copy of the shepherd the flock of god book submitted into evidence.

    NOTE: If you do d/l and read the book, be sure that you do NOT tell the elders. They are very protective of their little boy's club rules and rituals.

    Knowledge is power.

  • Saethydd

    First of all, welcome to the forum. You'll definitely find people here who can sympathize.

    When I was faced with a similar choice I was going to try a fade as well, but I quickly came to the realization that I couldn't live with that level of duplicity against my entire family, so instead I decided to be honest with them about what I wanted. They decided they didn't want me living in their home if I wasn't going to be reinstated, and now I've recently completed my first week of life on my own. It's hard work and I do miss my family, but at least I've got my freedom and my integrity. (both moral and intellectual)

  • Doubtfully Yours
    Doubtfully Yours

    I hope you get out of the meeting well, but I gotta tell you, it won't be easy. Hardcore, true JWs can detect a 'mute' apostate.

    Best wishes to you.


  • wheelwithinwheel

    Re your feelings of inferiority:

    I know a sister working in elder care, as in ‘old folks’. But ‘real’ elders get old too and need specialized care. She told me she used to feel intimidated by the ‘real’ elders. Over the years she’s looked after quite a few elderly ‘elders’ and has even changed a C.O’s diaper or many occasions. She told me that as time went by she realized “one dirty butt is just like any other dirty butt”. She has also observed the brother with the dirty butt is much happier to see her, with a clean diaper, than he is to see a fellow elder turn up with a Bible verse. So remember, these guys that believe they have been appointed by God to judge you received their elder badges in a box of Cracker Jacks. And, when you are sitting at your meeting, think about the fact that in a few years the guys intimidating you will all be sitting around in dirty diapers perhaps unaware of their surroundings.

    Thought you might need a smile. It any of this comes to mind during your meeting, resist the temptation to giggle. Those elders might think you’re not taking them seriously.

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