Need advice: Intimacy with my wife almost non existint because she considers me an apostate
At that point, take care of your needs. If you must live with her, then see her as a roommate. culture something good for you, out of that arrangement. Make sure you consider yourself worthy of taking care of your "Maslow's hierarchy of needs".
Morpheus, if that is "most certainly provable", please do so. Otherwise your comment sounds terribly mysogynist in nature.
Not all women "withhold sex as means of manipulation and negative reinforcement".
27 years and you two are still "gettin it in", (well until she just recently stopped) that's a more than good run for a married couple.
If you've royally pissed me off, I'm going to have the desire to have sex with you on par with that clump of dirt over there.
You're just not attractive sexually when you're being an ass. Think of it like this equation: being a dick does not equal intimacy which does not cause me to have sexual feelings toward you.
Some women might hold out to punish, but most of the time we're just not turned on by bad behavior. Drop the attitude and we're likely to feel a little more loving towards you.
And, if you can't handle being a nice guy and building trust and vulnerability and an intimate relationship, then you're just not very attractive.
Good luck leaving and finding it elsewhere. If your behavior is the same, you might have some trouble with anybody you're trying to get with.
(Advice not directly about goingthruthemotions. Just general feminine point of view.)
i guess she doesn't want to be plagued with my apostate disaese.
Your wife must want to become intimate with you again on her own rather than because she was pressured, guilted or talked into it.
It could be something else, but you likely are right about her being resentful about you no longer wanting to be a JW. Remember, she's got a whole head full of JW induced fears, notions and anxieties about marriage, marital roles, sex, life, death and big picture issues, rattling around in her head. You calling it quits as a JW is likely bringing them all to the forefront and nothing makes one feel less sexy or less like having sex, than fear, anxiety or resentment.
I'm guessing that by all you've said to her on the matter, she knows that even though you don't want to be a JW, you are willing to do whatever it takes to support her if that's what she wants and are anxious to get things back on track with your marriage. I've been married the same length of time as you have and here's what I'd do.
1. Unless she brings it up, I'd stop talking about wanting sex, he's well aware that you do. No one wants someone forcing food on them or inviting them to eat when they aren't hungry. It's the same with sex, if you aint' feelin' it....you aint' feelin' it. Forcing the issue makes it even worse.
2. I would stop talking about anything JW related unless she brings it up and I'd let her do most of the talking, only asking the occasional question in hopes she will see the nonsense in the patented JW answers she gives. Don't point out the flaws in her answers, just listen and consider what she's said.
3. I'd find subtle Tailor made ways to help revive her affection for you. I wouldn't do this because you want it to lead to sex, rather do so because you first and foremost, really do want her to feel "that way" about you once again and you want to make sure she knows you still feel "that way" about her too
As and example, here are a few of the simple things that I do that seem to go a long way with my wife. They are not intended to trick her into anything (sex). It's more a matter of reminding her that I know her better than anyone else and that I do pay attention to her and she matters. ( plus it's kinda' fun)
When my wife is a vulnerable position such as standing at the kitchen sink with her hands in soapy water, I come up behind her and softly kiss the nape of her neck just below her ear. Depending upon her reaction, I may smile and leave it at that and go on about my business or I may go one step further by pressing in a little, reaching around and grazing my fingertips along the front of her thighs and nibble on her ear. Usually I feel her knees falter or her breath quicken a bit and I know I'm on the right track. I give her a soft pat, gather her hair up and whisper in her ear, then become busy with something else and leaving her smouldering.
Throughout the day or even several days, I look for more opportunities to catch her in a position where she isn't able to respond to what I'm doing. Sometimes in a store or somewhere public with other people around, I absentmindedly let my hand slip off her shoulder and lightly graze the side of her breast or along the back of her arm. Without being obvious, I notice her reaction and if it's favorable, I may slide my hand slowly down her back letting my fingernails graze as they continue a little lower than they should in a public place. If she looks pleased but a little embarrassed, I know I'm on the right track but musn't go too far.
If we pass a jewelry or perfume counter for example, and something catches my eye I'll stop and walk backwards a few steps, pulling her with me and ask her what she thinks of it. Usually she likes what I've spotted but often sees something else even nicer. I pull her over to the mirror and look at her admiringly as she tries it on. Even if she only want's to look, rather than buy, she seems pleased that I am interested in things she likes (and I really am).
One thing she likes is for me to read aloud to her in bed. Sometimes if I happen upon something I know she'll like, I tell her about it . Expecting nothing in return, I encourage her to come get ready for bed early and I'll read it to her.
Usually on the weekends she makes a full on breakfast. Sometimes I put some music on and if I hear a song I know she likes, I slide the frying pan off the burner, spin her around and we slow dance around the kitchen. She laughingly protests that "breakfast will be ruined", but I know she's pleased. She must be well aware of what I'm up to after all these years, but I've never talked this to her about it. I know that doing so would ruin it.
What I'm trying to say is that I think your wife needs to be reminded that your marriage isn't defined by your being, or not being a Jehovah's Witness. Your consideration of her feelings by not saying anything negative about something she holds in high regard (JW's) , coupled with your genuine interest in her as a unique individual, will go far in rekindling the warmth in your relationship . Now that lack of sex has become an issue, you need to take the spotlight off sex itself, by looking for (genuine & honest) ways to make that nice part of your life together,overshadow the JW part that has become such an intrusion. Don't do it because you expect anything in return, rather because you enjoy making her happy.
I had a husband who refused sex and affection (went for years without either). Its not just a girl game.
Sex is, after a certain age, not a huge focus anymore, but everyone wants to feel love and affection. I wonder if your wife is feeling rejected because you rejected the WT and she is to bound to it. I hope you can give her some clarity on that one, because it may be at the heart of this. She is taking your rejection of the religion as a rejection of her. I hope you can separate that in her heart. (follow all the romancing advice - make her feel your love emotionally, because she has a mental disconnect that is screwing with your lives.)
i do think she is withholding sex from me has a tool to her advantage in some ways...the other thing is a mental battle within herself. me being an apostate and her trying to come to terms with the fact that if she wants to sleep with the enemy.
has far has sex goes...i have alot of male vitality. so has far has sowing my oats, it's pretty much a desire i have.
don't know how else to put it.
Morpheus, I'm really sorry for what you went through in your marriage and acknowledge the huge impact on you and your subsequent observations.
Maybe I missed this but could you just ask her if she will ever want to have sex with you and what she feels you need to do qualify for sex? If the answer is 'be a god jdub' then you pretty much know what you have to do.
Remember, both you and your wife deserve to be happy. It may work out that you can be happy together or it may not, but you both deserve happiness.
You have provided some very good insight. However, those who "Liked" your post (please god please tell me they were all women - if any were men then they want to be cuckcolded): "She may have an involuntary aversion to being intimate with you due to Watchtower programming about apostates being "satan's helpers". Watchtower programming may have destroyed her attraction to you, as such attraction may have been significantly rooted in your status as a spiritual man. What woman wants to have sex with a demon?"
Here is what I will say to that and what all of us should have thought before "Liking." If Ms. "I Aint Giving Satan a Blowjob" also isn't letting Satan: take her out to dinner at her favorite restaurant; taking her to the concert to see her favorite musical group; snuggling together with popcorn and watching tv; working in the yard together on a project and otherwise sharing life together in a normal, healthy - albeit strained due to the Dark Tower's influence and their current congregational situation - relationship, then your hypothesis has merit.
If Ms. "I Ain't Giving Satan a Blowjob" is allowing Satan to do any or all of the above, she is a vile, wicked woman using sex as a weapon to try and control him. My bet is she's A-OK with everything else Satan is doing for her.
Slip out the back, Jack.