Long Intro From A Long Timer

by hillary_step 185 Replies latest jw friends

  • Flowerpetal

    Gopher, you said:

    [QUOTE]So really Jesus took that idea of community responsibility and brought it forward. This is no leap of logic. Who wants to be part of the bad "tree" when it finally gets cut down?

    Surely you can see that there's some huge, almost apocalyptic event in the future of the WTS organization. Either it has to change in a huge way or it will come crashing down.[/QUOTE)

    That could happen to the WTS, either big changes or it will crash. But if a person has made Jehovah and Jesus first in their life, they will survive the crash (if it crashes) because they have already have this relationship with them and know how to rely on them in all circumstances. There are not all just legalistic, organizational-driven JWs in the society. Those are the ones who suffer a real crisis of conscience if they just go thru the motions, not even knowing why they do what they do.

  • Flowerpetal

    Hilary, you said:

    Some of you seem to have set yourselves up as some sort of online Theo Jaracz. You use the very same tactics as the Organisation that you claim to have seen through and abhor. Instantaneous judgments, guilt by association, straining at words, missing the spirit and principle of the messages, collective bullying, selective quotations, a total intolerance of viewpoints that confound your own and above all an astonishing and arrogant confidence in your own point of view. All in all many of you seem to have become the kind of people the WTS made you. So much for your 'freedom'.

    Same conclusions I have drawn, as well Hilary.

  • Flowerpetal

    SixofNine, you said:

    [QUOTE]Yep, this freedom is pretty special, and something no JW has. For me, it makes life so much richer, fuller...just all around better. It's the freedom to be completely honest.[/Q]

    Being completely honest, doesn't mean being insulting, judgemental, and tactless to others, however. (not that I'm saying you are but there are some who are).

  • Tina

    ''some of you seem to have set yourselves up as some online ted jaracz........wow hs,great description of yourself here.

    6/9 Excellent post,weasel worded ,authoritative wts apologists deserve to be exposed for the dishonesty they promote. (per hs)
    AS for lw-how ludicrous that he crows about displaying maturity ,self control,and lack of anger....when his posts to mommiedark and I show the complete opposite of what he espouses lol.
    Can you say speak with forked tongue? lol

  • Flowerpetal

    LoneWolf, you stated:

    In the meantime, we have the difficult task of panning out the gold from the dirt. We can throw the whole works out, of course, but if we do that, then any possibility of progress from those painful experiences is lost, and we're all back to square one.

    Here is where maturity and self control comes in. Personally speaking, I'm grateful to the WTS for having broken the back of such nonsense as immortality of the soul, hellfire, the trinity, etc. My desire is to hold on to the progress that has been made, resist that which is not right, and refuse to stagnate in the cesspool of hate and resentment by looking for ways to continue forward. I think by-and-large I've succeeded.

    For those who criticize this: keep in mind two things --- 1. Sometimes a leaky, half-rotten boat is better than none,

    Since the second thing doesn't apply to me as of yet, I left that one off. But I just thought what you said bears repeating.

  • Flowerpetal

    Tina, you said to HS:

    You dont know the people or their stories but jump in and make these blanket assessments. You attack the messenger by calling them frustrated and angry-sorry Im not any of those.
    Self-righteous "I know better than you" elsder types are unfortunately a dime a dozen in the org.

    How about leaving the org out of this for a sec, and think about the fact that some of us have more life experience than others because we are older and perhaps a bit more wiser. Some of us have seen the '60's with all the turmoil that went with it, and shortly following that, the '70's, and I am talking about outside the org.now: The war in VietNam, the struggles of the African Americans. Heck that even started in the '50's when they would show news reports on TV of police in the south hosing the African Americans because they were determined to stop segregation. The assassination of President Kennedy, his brother, and Martin Luther King. We saw changes that have affected us and shaped our attitudes apart from the org. You seem to judge everything some of say as coming from the WTS, or that our entire outlook on life is because of it's influence and that is simply not the case.

  • larc

    My opinion,

    I like the writings of both Lone Wolf and Hillery. Although they are on different sides of the fence, they are good writers and seem to have a balance and maturity about themselves. I am glad that they are both here. They bring wisdom and a sense of perspective to the board. Each has made their own decision as to how to "do good" within the constraint that face them, and I respect that. I also think that Flowerpetal demonstrates a sense of balance and perspective and a willingness to defend certain ideas and explore other ideas in a fair, impartial manner.

  • joelbear

    Motives are what count?

    Hitler was trying to protect the German people.
    The slaughter of the American Indian was to establish a free country.
    The enslavement of Africans was to expose them to Christianity.

    What a ludicrous hypothesis.

    The governing body utterly convinced that they are here to save mankind?

    Possibly, but doubtful. From my experiences at Bethel, they are running a business and run quite a tight ship. My time at Bethel, including my experiences with the governing body were nothing like the paradise I dreamed about in boyhood.

    But, I agree that they are probably no worse that any other group, ruled by the desire to promote the group.

    The manmade world is screwed, go for a walk in the woods while you still can.


  • Tina

    I was around then too. Wisdom is not exclusive to age anyway.MO
    Those turbulent yrs were part of my living experience as well....
    you assume I have no experiences out of dubland,which is not the case. I wasnt a jw then and was active about some issues,(tho a bit young) :> not on the sidelines watching.Even tho being raised w/ jw nonsense,I had some good free yrs before I took the idiotic plunge,and after realizing my mistake,didnt waste a whole lot of time gettin out of it.
    Larc-I do agree,fp is more open minded than other jw's Ive seen. I do appreciate that :>
    Sorry I dont share your views about lw and hs. If you have read all lw's posts and call that balanced,I dont know what to say. Because it most certainly isnt.But we are all entitled to our own ideas. I did not see the 'fair impartialness' that you saw. And from other responses Im not the only one who didnt see it.
    I most certainly dont respect how he responded to mommiedark and myself....if you think that showed balance...well..........
    AS for hs,Im going by his responses to comfs well thought out posts.

  • LoneWolf

    Trevor ---

    It is indeed a complicated and heartrending situation. One simply aches for a solution that is perfect and covers all the bases, but unfortunately all too many times all we can do is choose the lesser of multiple evils. You could say that we don't have enough hands. Every time we pick up one corner, another drops.

    You write: "that a human organization is not needed to worship God. The words spirit and truth come to mind." I feel there is much more to be said on that, but that's another thread. (Or book!)

    Alias: Tom Howell

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