I'm banned from the Silentlambs Website

by Trauma_Hound 138 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • SheilaM

    (((((((((RevMalk and TH))))))))))))

    You both know how I feel

  • Simon

    I understand RevMalk

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    Hey Rev, isn't that what friends are for? We're here to listen and hear you vent. It's okay because this is a safe place to do that. I don't consider my self a lamb, just a survivor.



  • Trauma_Hound

    I apologize for my venting as well, just sometimes things build up, and this is defently a subject I'm pationate about. I think it's good to keep this in the media, however, the only real changes aren't going to come from the media, they are going to come from changing the laws, and there's no one focusing on that right now, and I think that is what is needed. You can't win a war going straight in, you need to surround them.

  • hawkaw

    Why that is where you are absolutely wrong sir,

    There are numerous lawsuits on the go or about to be launched. Also one has finished up in September and we await the outcome.

    Did you miss all the criminal cases that have occurred and have be published lately?

    What comes from the case law will force changes both by Government and the actual corporations such as this WTS. You can see happening as states are changing their reporting laws etc., even the WTS has kind of backed off on reporting to the police.

    What comes from the press coverage in combination with the lawsuits and the criminal charges will bring about change. If it doesn't the corporations will go bankrupt and people will end up in jail.

    But you need the "combination" for it too work, not just one part.


    Edited by - hawkaw on 7 January 2003 14:46:41

  • RevMalk

    What comes from the press coverage in combination with the lawsuits and the criminal charges will bring about change. If it doesn't the corporations will go bankrupt and people will end up in jail.

    I respectfully and completely disagree. The media is definitely not hurting, but the court cases and the media are NOT going to make the politicians change the laws. Are you kidding me? They have people hammering them every day about this or that. You can't change laws until you go after them. Petitions, letters, phone calls, public knowledge.....these are the things that will bring about change. The WTBS has yet to lose one of these cases (except settling out of court). And even so, they're definitely not going to change unless the law forces them to, and that's 'iffy' as well, since we see them breaking the law every day all over the world. The general public knows nothing about this.

    Go out on the street and ask 100 people, I bet you 10 bucks says you find 5 at most that have heard of the problem specifically with JWs.

    People care when they hear about it, but not enough to make them think, or remember. It needs to be presented as a personal problem. This differs from the Catholics, these people are knocking on our doors, that's what people need to know. They also need to see where this has actually happened (someone harmed from a molester at their door).

    We've been hearing about the Catholics all our lives, have any of us given it much thought? At least to the point where we actually do something about it? Chances are no, because our son's won't be altar boys. That's the same with all the people on this planet that aren't closely related. These people all need to know this is a problem that faces every human on the planet. If you think about it, there's very few issues that can have an impact on every single human alive, and that's what people don't understand. Both the general public, and the politicians, and we need to tell them.

  • hawkaw

    Thanks for all the strawmans and non sequiturs.


  • expatbrit

    I went back and read a few threads by Lady Lee, who seems to have an incisive understanding of a lot of the issues here. She also has professional training, I believe. I'm going to cut and paste a couple of her posts, because I think they what she has to say in them is very relevant to this discussion.

    From: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=42827&site=3

    Support for abuse victims survivors

    Years ago when I started my recovery from abuse and knew I wanted to help others I realized that having lived the experience was not enough to help others. Due to the abuse and my personal experience I had a one-sided perspective of what abuse was and how it affected people. I knew how it affected ME. And I knew well enough that if I wanted to reach out to others I better get some professional training. So I did.

    I have no desire to criticize any person who is trying to help. But one of my pet peeves about the entire field of helping abuse survivors is that most often the least trained, least knowledgeable people are in the positions of "helping" those who are the most damaged.

    In many places where services are provided to victims of abuse students are used to do this intense counseling. This is unfathomable to me. I know when I started this work there were few people who could supervise me. No one had the experience to train me. So I had to do an awful lot of research to make sure I was doing the right thing for people. Fortunately I have made only a few mistakes along the way.

    Now in the context of silentlambs we here again have a situation where people who don not have the training in abuse issues are reaching out to help some of the most damaged people in society. They don't trust - for good reason. Their beliefs about relationships are distorted - for good reason. They have dysfunctional relationships - for good reason.

    And we have some people who think they know what we need by some mystery of osmosis. We know the training the WTS gives its people. It is sadly inadequate to deal with the vast problems that abuse survivors experience. So why do we expect any untrained person to be able to deal with these problems?

    Years ago I went to a support group for victims of incest. The person who started this group had not done her own healing. Instead of working on her issues she was determined to help others. She had originally been in the same group I was in but when that ended she went off and started her own group. I knew her well.

    When I walked into the room I was shocked. After we all sat down I realized that every person in the room was sitting in the exact position she was sitting in - for the whole 2 hours - ankles crossed, hands neatly folded in their laps, back straight. It was eerie to watch. Not feeling they had their own identity each person in the group was taking on the physical posture of the woman who was perceived to be the leader. The power of leadership and the difficulties of victims - believing they all had to be the same to be accepted.

    Because they had relationship problems the group had strict rules about who could talk and when. No one could respond to what another person said because it could be taken the wrong way. One woman spoke of wanting to commit suicide. She said she would leave and wait for a response but the rule said you could not respond so no one did. She repeated it and again waited and no one responded. She finally got up and left. I was horrified. My partner who came with me followed her to make sure she was OK but the group and the leader stuck my their rules not understanding the need for breaking rules sometimes and acting out of compassion - something none of them had experienced and the leader in her dysfunction still knew little about.

    Too often the wounded are left to help themselves. One of my main criticism of the recovery movement is that there seems to be this belief that if you put a bunch of people with relationship, communication, trust, betrayal, identity and personal issues in a room together they will somehow be able to "cure" each other or themselves when in reality all you have is a room full of dysfunctional people acting out their dysfunctions on each other. It is a recipe for disaster.

    I do believe that victims/survivors do have a lot to offer each other. And what they offer is invaluable and cannot be attained any other way.

    The efforts of many to help are to be applauded but they cannot do everything. Some can be spokespeople to get the message out and they can be excellent at that. Others can listen and suggest places for people to get help. Some can share their stories and offer hope and support. But all victims need professional help. There are more and more wonderfully trained professionals out there - certainly a lot more than when I was looking for help.

    No website can offer all things to victims. No one person can do that either - even a professional which is why we encourage people to have a support network.

    Most people are most effective when they tackle one job and do it well This is especially true for those who choose to work with abuse victims/survivors. Bill Bowen has done an amazing job at getting media attention for silentlambs. He has brought the problem out of the closet and let victims inside the WT org. know they are not alone. Some are finding their way to freedom. Excellent job Bill. Keep it up but stay focused. You do this job well. Do not try to be all things to all victims/survivors.

    As for discussion boards which offer support to victims/survivors I believe it would be essential to have some trained volunteers moderate the board. And by trained I mean people who really understand group dynamics, abuse issues, communication problems, and dysfunctional relationships. Otherwise flame wars will wind up hurting many more than you help

    One other aspect for anyone becoming involved in this issue is the need to take care of oneself. Listening to the horror stories of so many often results in "vicarious trauma". Most professionals who deal with any kind of trauma experience this. They often suffer from all the same reactions to abuse as the victims do. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder by proxy is another name for it. While you might not experience the trauma yourself you can be affected by hearing the stories. One reaction of many to these symptoms is to keep busy to try to remedy the situation. The more overwhelmed you feel about the enormity of the problem the more you might take on in trying to "help" But a person who is trying to help while they are in crisis themselves only makes the situation worse. We would again have the problem of those who need help trying to lead those who need help. It doesnt work. Believe me I have tried it. In the end you fail and people are disappointed and hurt. Make sure you have good support yourself while doing this work. You will need it.

    Just my personal and yes professional opinion

    Lee Marsh/Lady Lee

    From: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=43909&page=2&site=3


    We dont know when they happen. When we are in it, we feel overwhelmed and under attack. We will yell and scream about unfairness and injustice. We feel like we did as little kids who could not protect ourselves and no one will listen. If we perceive any lack of support or questioning we will see you as the attacker or on their side and not ours. Remember - polarized reactions to things. If we perceive you to be in a position of authority over us (or others) you will get painted with the same brush as any other abuser that we have ever known. We cant think in this state. We are emotion - raw. And feeling vulnerable and exposed to further attack. It isn't until it is over that we MIGHT be able to see it for what it was and then feel quite sorry for some of the things we have said and done.

    I have seen so much of this here lately and recognize it well. I have been there myself many times. Gladly not too often in recent years. And I have learned to step back when I feel it happening and give myself time to get out of the emotion and back to my thinking self


    Edited by - expatbrit on 7 January 2003 16:49:54

  • ThiChi

    Hey TH:

    "No good deed will go unpunished."

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