new, nowhere to turn, ashamed & afraid
My my. That's quite a story and the responses are a good representation of the various personalities we have here: sympathetic, empathetic, cynical, logical, nurturing, immune to BS.
It's taken me quite a bit of personal growth to overcome my previous tendancy to swallow everything whole without chewing. I did it for years as a loyal Dub and now I am trying hard to find a balance between openmindedness and skepticism. I'll let you know if I ever find it.
For now, I don't really have a good take on whether or not "ashamed and afraid" is genuine or not. When I first read her opening post, I was thinking, "how sad for her, and how am I a "scapegoater?" I still don't have a clue what that means or how I have given anyone that impression. On further reading and seeing "her" reaction to what others have posted, I'm feeling my BS meter start up.
Girl, I don't know whether you are real or your post is some elaborate way to provoke a reaction. If you really are in the situation you describe, I'm sorry and would help if I could...just as others have sincerely offered. If you are a fake, it's a mean joke to play on the sympathy of others. I've had enough of mean people for one lifetime.
Wasasister....still trying to figure out the lable "major scapegoater"
I found azzazel's initial posting very odd from
the very beginning. Certain things didn't come
close to adding up. First, she introduced herself
as one who'd been done wrong by the elders
(gaining immediate sympathy on this board)
but she used the wrong kinds of words. She said
she was afraid of posting (repeatedly), but that
didn't seem to stop her from posting. She said:
I honestly don't know what may happen to me or my children if they lose me, right now I feel like I've got nowhere left to turn … I am recently disfellowshipped for immorality, the subject of a kingdom hall witch -hunt and subsequent congregational humiliation, during the process of the judicial committee meetings and proceedings no consideration was given to my real human circumstances nor to the spirit of survival nor human nature nor that of a mother seeking to protect her children from lack of basic fundamentals such as food, shelter and clothing…
What a mouth full, and what an odd choice of words
for someone supposedly down and out. What really
got my attention was when she said
I'm a single widowed mother with two adorable young children, a boy aged 3 and a girl aged 5, to bring up in this world I am also still quite relatively young and yes , beautiful.
Whoa! But she wasn't done with the sensitivity tip:
my husband died a slow horrible death from cancer … we ended up on social security … I had to stay home and care for him … we married young and I have no real job skills … because of not being able to get to the meetings or out in field service … we were soon labelled as weak ones spiritually and avoided by almost the entire congregation … I don't wish to appear cynical but after our baptism things did seem to change and we were treated a lot more cooly but anyway like I said, I'm afraid to post here, I've seen scapegoating on this board as well, just like at the kh so I'm not sure if things are really all they are cracked up to be here in terms of a support group.
for the third time she admits a fear of posting,
and I swear I thought I heard violins beginning
to play and a lump come to my throat when she said:
but i've been watching, wondering, should i dare to post? will i at least find one sympathetic ear, one friend in this world who will simply listen and not judge
but she killed the mood immediately when she said
I've noticed mommy, tina, farkel and wasasister in particular are major scapegoaters.
trevor and larc's so called psychological "advice", which i've read on the depression forum, seems to be, well lets say a little thin on the ground to say the least
I could go on, but too much of what "she" said didn't ring true. A very odd individual, to say the least. Or one playing a juvenile game.
have a nice one, COMF.
I think she left.
Why do I get this uncanny feeling that Danielle is close by?
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
Azzazel, I recognize the names of your two children. We know each other. Please write to me urgently.
Hummmmmmmm. I'm afraid I have to agree with COMF, and a few other people here. The original post by Azzazel strongly resembles a mackerel in the moonlight: it has a beautiful shine, but lord how it stinks.
The original post is purported to be that of a beautiful young woman with no education, no job skills; an ignorant but intelligent person. However, as a professional journalist and editor, I can say that Azzazel's use of the English language is far, far above average. Her vocabulary is that of someone who has at the very least an undergraduate degree, and her grammar and style are sophisticated - as is her grasp of abstraction and argumentation. Additionally, I get the impression that Azzazel may or may not actually be female.
Azzazel's approach reveals to me ulterior motives. After establishing grounds for sympathy, she then publicly attacks specific people for what according to her is essentially lack of compassion - the same kind she uses in justifying her derogatory observations in the first place. The circularity of this reasoning is as sophisticated as it is obvious. We could go on in this vein but I see little to be gained from it.
When you're dealing with the public at large, there's no telling what may pop up out of the woodwork. But the world is a stranger place than we can imagine - to borrow a phrase. This is even more true when you're dealing with the personality types who become involved with a micro-minority, apocalyptic cult (and I include myself in that statement. Raised in the Jay-Dubs or not, I should have bugged out far sooner than I did).
Another thing, Azzazel is the name of the scapegoat in some legends who carried away the sins of the people on the day of Atonement. The name also appears in some of the mythology of the Seventh Day Adventists, and also in the Kaballah, Jewish mysticism, and a couple of Internet online games. It's not the kind of nom de plume an uneducated person would come up with: the evidence of chicanery piles high.
I'm convinced what we have here is an intelligent person, accomplished in several areas of communication, argumentation, and trans-personal psychology engaged in a fairly obvious game of some sort, preying on the compassion that's natural in some human beings, especially in the recently hurt: there's something rotten in Denmark. Perhaps he/she is engaged in some measure of gullibility or suggestibility. Who knows? But I'd be willing to bet that Azzazel isn't anything even resembling what he/she claims to be. We may never know.
I have just read this thread and whoa...so many different viewpoints, and valid ones at that. I
have to say that there has been something that I agreed with in every single reply in this thread:
some more than others.
To our new friend, I just want to say this: I've been a single mother, with very poor health
and only a high school education and two community college typing classes to get by on. I worked
nights, in a 24 hour grocery store as a cashier so that I could support myself and my baby. I
worked with many, many single mothers there, most of them worked more than one job to
take care of their children. To my knowledge (and I knew these gals pretty well) none of them
had to resort to the skin trade (dancing, prostitution, drug selling, et.al) to survive.
They were getting foodstamps and other help from the state. I know what waiting said is true
and there are many homeless people because the government doesn't take care of everyone.
But if you are selling yourself, you need to realize the very real danger you're in. I don't have
to tell you I'm sure about the risks of this profession.
In times past I would have thrown my arms around you without restraint and believed every
word of your story. I've learned to take more of a wait and see approach. If you are really
as desperate as you write, then my heart goes out to you and your children. I certainly do not
judge you, as a parent I can understand your dilemma.
You did get off on the wrong foot with your classifying folks right off the bat. Back off on that
if you are really here for the very real support this group can offer. I think very highly of
many of those that you've been sniping at and it's not a good way to make friends. You can't
know all there is to know about me, or anyone else here just from what we post. We all have
to withhold some information, especially if we're afraid of losing our anonymity.
If your seriously considering suicide, get help now. Your children will not be better off without you.
Call the local crisis hotline, they're usually listed in the phone book and are toll free in most areas.
You can call from a payphone if you have to.
More I'd like to say but I have got to dash off for now, company coming. I hope that things
will improve for you and your children. Please don't forget them in this when you're thinking
about how hard things are on you: it's harder on them.
p.s. My troll alarm is ringing off the wall too, guys. If you are indeed just trying to stir
folks up...you really need to get a new hobby.
The Four Agreements:
Be Impeccable With Your Word
Don't Take Anything Personally
Don't Make Assumptions
Always Do Your Best
Why do I get a sense of deja vu here? Kinda reminds me of what GS did on h20, Nice ploy but its been done before, c ya bad associate
Wow, i am sooooooo gullable!!! I always believe people.
I read you intro post and noticed you managed to take a swing at a lot of people. Made me wonder what part of you is "beautiful". Hope you can find what you are looking for here. I don't agree with much of the beliefs of most of the posters here but hot dam, can't we just get along? (I think I stole that line....)
Aw shucks, I'm sorry! I know life is like a bowl of cherrys, full of pits, but jeeze, we go our tits in a ringer on occassion too!
hang in there babe!
Francoise, I found your forensic dissection, analysis & consequent discounting of azzazel's credibility most enlightening, though it may be worthwhile to double check your handiwork - just to make sure you haven't mistakenly amputated your own heart in the process,
with that incisive, mostly redundant, intellectual scalpel of yours.
Regardless, I'm sure your post made most of us here feel a whole lot better about our comparable attitudes.
The Azzazel I know has eyes within which one can see the place she dreams.