Can psychic energy heal?

by kenpodragon 108 Replies latest jw friends

  • rem
    rem

    John Edwards is talented, alright... but he's certainly no psychic. Even as a 'psychic' he's not even really that good... he's just a good stage presence and a fast talker.

    The technique is called Cold Reading... and the fact that Edwards can outperform average people is not a testament to his psychic ability, but shows that he is a semi-accomplished cold reader. It's not random... there is a skill to it. The trick is to start vague and get more and more detailed with feedback. Most people don't even realize they are providing the cold reader valuable feedback. When you read the transcripts of the shows or analyze videos of his performances, his technique becomes glaringly obvious.

    Also, one thing that Edwards has going for him is that his shows are all heavily edited. The taping lasts for hours, but you only see a fraction of it on TV. Guess what you see... all of the amazing hits and hardly any of the misses (otherwise it would be a pretty boring show). Edwards probably doesn't rely on cold reading alone... he almost certainly has the producers help with research gathering and such... just like he was caught doing on Dateline.

    rem

  • kenpodragon
    kenpodragon

    I understand what you mean, but think of how many things in this life are explained with a good editing. Personally, I am not going to spend $800-$1000 to see John Edwards in person, but the people I know who have sure felt their money was well spent. I think everyone has the right to put faith in what they want, and everyone has the right to say the faith is wrong. It does not change the fact that people believe, like me. It just shows that not everything is right for everyone.

    Take Care

    Dragon

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    I read some time ago, that randi's test is set up so that no one, not even jesus could win it.

    SS

  • rem
    rem
    I read some time ago, that randi's test is set up so that no one, not even jesus could win it.

    That's just a silly statement. All parties have to agree on the experiment before it is done. It all comes down to statistics. There is no judge. All potential ways to cheat are controlled... so it's no wonder that no one has won yet. Fraudsters are used to fooling scientists... but magicians like Randi are qualified to see through their tricks.

    It's best not to rely on hearsay... read the challenge from the source and do some research on past challengers who failed and why. Do you think it's wrong for Randi to expose frauds?

    rem

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Do you think it's wrong for Randi to expose frauds?

    Not at all. I feel a strong reaction to fraudsters. Let's remember that randi is a magician, whose m.o. is deception, although generally innocent.

    All parties have to agree on the experiment before it is done.

    Yes, there is no preset standard. Randi can change the rules as he sees fit.

    There is no judge.

    It would boil down to randi being the judge. One of the conditions is that he be present at all times, no room for a neutral agent to host or judge the experiments.

    All potential ways to cheat are controlled... so it's no wonder that no one has won yet.

    Except for possibilites of cheating on randi's part. He holds all the cards.

    I might not carry this discussion further, so here are a few articles to consider, for starters. They are, in their turn, skeptical of randi's challenge.

    http://www.alternativescience.com/james-randi.htm

    http://www.lyghtforce.com/HomeoList/00003641.htm

    http://www.rviewer.com/main/Trans970325-2.html

    http://www.victorzammit.com/skeptics/reward.html

    SS

  • finnrot
    finnrot

    To all believers---You have traded in a mind control religion for another fantasy. The funny thing is, just a few years ago, you would have considered all this crap you believe in DEMONIZED.

    The power of the mind is probably very powerful, but it's the power your mind uses and creates for your own body. To feel that when you die, you are going to sprout wings and go play with the angles must be a great feeling. And people are so scared crapless that when they die that they are going to just lie there and rot, that they all gather together and beg and grovel as they look up into the sky, and look around at each other, and reassure each other that they are true and correct.

    The same for you maroons that believe that people can see the future or talk to the dead or heal the sick with the power of their mind. If there is any healing going on, it's the healing effect that the persons own mind is doing. Your mind probably can prolong your life, you know, will to live and all that. My grandparents are as old as dirt, but they wont die because they know armageddon is coming any day now.

    -fin

  • rem
    rem

    SS,

    It is not surprising to me that Randi has many enemies that wish to belittle his serious challenge. These people truly believe that they and others have powers, but instead of proving Randi wrong, they can only try to discredit the challenge. I've read your links and all I can do is disagree. The complaints against the challenge are silly, juvenile, and uninformed. (Did you actually read the links you provided? Let's just say these people are not the guys you want batting for your own team. One guy tried to discredit Randi because Randi believes perpetual motion machines are a scientific impossibility. Yikes!). I've read the challenge language and I believe it is absolutely fair... how else should a challenge be drafted? It already states that BOTH parties have to completely agree on the experiment and the criteria for pass fail.

    I have read about actual challenges and how challengers were caught cheating in the preliminary tests. Suddenly when their method of cheating was exposed and controlled, their amazing powers went away and they left embarrassed (In at least one occasion the subject was a child who had fooled her parents and other adults until the phenomenon got out of hand... the adults actually believed she had the power to see through a blindfold until Randi exposed the fact that she was able to peek through a tiny hole in the blindfold. So they are not all necessarily frauds, but get caught up in something they can't get out of). The challenge is fair and I believe Randi bends over backwards at times to accomodate the challengers. It is not even Randi's money at stake.

    Here is the current draft (I have bolded certain comments):

    This statement outlines the rules covering the offer made by this Foundation (JREF) concerning psychic, supernatural or paranormal claims. Since claims vary greatly in character and scope, specific rules must be formulated for each applicant. All applicants must agree to the rules set forth here before any formal agreement can be entered into. Completing this form is mandatory; there are no exceptions to this rule.

    Applicant will declare agreement by signing this form where indicated on the reverse before a notary public, and returning the form to the James Randi Educational Foundation. Applicants must state clearly what they claim as their special ability, and test procedures must be agreed upon by both parties before any testing will take place. All tests must be designed in such a way that the results are self-evident, and no judging process is required. We do not design the protocol independently of the claimant, who must provide clear guidelines so that the test may be properly set. All applicants must clearly identify themselves properly before any discussion takes place.

    Due to the large amount of correspondence exchanged in this process, applicants must send a stamped, self-addressed envelope (SSAE), in the case of foreign letters only a self-addressed envelope, to accompany each piece of correspondence requiring an answer. This offer is administered by the JREF, and no one may negotiate or make any changes, except as set forth in writing by James Randi (JR). All correspondence must be written, and will be answered, in English only.

    Upon properly completing this document and receiving it back signed on the reverse by JR, the applicant becomes eligible for the preliminary test, which, if successful, will result in the formal test.


    I, James Randi, through the JREF, will pay US$1,000,000 to any person who can demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability under satisfactory observing conditions. Such demonstration must take place under these rules and limitations.

    1. Applicant must state clearly in advance, and applicant and JREF will agree upon, what powers or abilities will be demonstrated, the limits of the proposed demonstration (so far as time, location and other variables are concerned) and what will constitute both a positive and a negative result. This is the primary and most important of these rules.
    2. Only an actual performance of the stated nature and scope, within the agreed-upon limits, will be accepted. Anecdotal accounts of previous events are not accepted or considered. We consult competent statisticians when an evaluation of the results, or experiment design, is required. We have no interest in theories or explanations of how the claimed powers might work; if you provide us with such material, it will be ignored and discarded.
    3. Applicant agrees that all data (photographic, recorded, written, etc.) gathered as a result of the testing may be used freely by JREF in any way that Mr. Randi may choose.
    4. No part of the testing procedure may be changed in any way without the agreement of all parties concerned.JR may be present at some preliminary or formal tests, but will not interact with the materials used.
    5. In all cases, applicant will be required to perform the preliminary test either before an appointed representative, if distance and time dictate that need, or in a location where a member of the JREF staff can attend. This preliminary test is to determine if the applicant is likely to perform as promised during a formal test. To date, no applicant has passed the preliminary test, and this has eliminated the need for formal testing in those cases. There is no limit on the number of times an applicant may re-apply, but re-application can take place only after 12 months have elapsed since the preliminary test.
    6. All expenses such as transportation, accommodation, materials, assistants, and/or all other costs for any persons or procedures incurred in pursuit of the reward, are the sole responsibility of the applicant. Neither the JREF nor JR will bear any of the costs.
    7. When entering into this challenge, the applicant surrenders any and all rights to legal action against Mr. Randi, against any persons peripherally involved, and against the James Randi Educational Foundation, as far as this may be done by established statutes. This applies to injury, accident, or any other damage of a physical or emotional nature, and/or financial, or professional, loss or damage of any kind. However, this rule in no way affects the awarding of the prize.
    8. At the formal test, in advance, an independent person will be placed in charge of a personal check from James Randi for US$10,000. In the event that the claimant is successful under the agreed terms and conditions, that check shall be immediately surrendered to the claimant, and within ten days the James Randi Educational Foundation will pay to the claimant the remainder of the reward, for a total of US$1,000,000. One million dollars in negotiable bonds is held by an investment firm in New York, in the "James Randi Educational Foundation Prize Account," as surety for the prize funds. Validation of this account and its current status may be obtained by contacting the Foundation by telephone, fax, or e-mail.
    9. Copies of this form are available free of charge to any person who sends the required SSAE, marked on the outside, "Challenge Application," requesting it, or it can be downloaded from the Internet, at www.randi.org/research/challenge.html
    10. This offer is made by James Randi through the JREF, and not on behalf of any other person, agency or organization, though others may become involved in the examination of claims, others may add their reward money to the total in certain circumstances, and the implementation and management of the challenge will be carried out by James Randi via the James Randi Educational Foundation. JREF will not entertain any demand that the prize money be deposited in escrow, displayed in cash, or otherwise produced in advance of the test being performed. JREF will not cater to such vanities.
    11. This offer is open to any and all persons, in any part of the world, regardless of gender, race, educational background, etc., and will continue in effect until the prize is awarded. Upon the death of James Randi, the administration of the prize will pass into other hands, and it is intended that it continue in force.
    12. EVERY APPLICANT MUST AGREE UPON WHAT WILL CONSTITUTE A CONCLUSION THAT, ON THE OCCASION OF THE FORMAL TEST, HE OR SHE DID OR DID NOT DEMONSTRATE THE CLAIMED ABILITY OR POWER. This form must be accompanied by a brief, two-paragraph description of what will constitute the demonstration. PLEASE: Do not burden us with theories, philosophical observations, previous examples, or other comments! We are only interested in an actual demonstration.

    NOTE: No special rules, exceptions, conditions, standards, or favors will be granted, without mutual agreement of those concerned in advance. Any applicant who refuses to agree to meet the rules as outlined here, will not be considered to have ever been a claimant. Only complete agreement with these rules will constitute the "applicant" being considered a "claimant." Applicant, by signing, notarizing and returning this form, signifies agreement with all of the above rules. This form, signed by JR, will be returned by mail. Be advised that you should conduct proper, secure, tests of your own, to determine whether your abilities or claims are actually valid. Some persons who failed to do this, have undergone serious embarrassment and emotional stress, as a result. This advice is offered only so that you might be spared these problems.




    James Randi Educational Foundation
    201 S.E. 12th Street
    Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316-1815 U.S.A.
    USA

    Notarized:






    (signature of claimant)

    Please be advised that several claimants have suffered great personal embarrassment after failing these tests. I strongly advise you to conduct proper double-blind tests of any ability you believe you can demonstrate, before attempting to undergo a testing for this prize. This has saved me and many claimants much time and work, by showing that the powers were quite imaginary on the part of the would-be claimant. Please do this, and do not choose to ignore the need for such a precaution.

    -- James Randi

    rem

    Edited by - rem on 3 October 2002 12:1:28

    Edited by - rem on 3 October 2002 12:8:12

  • kenpodragon
    kenpodragon

    There is room in the world for all skeptics and believers. Glad you know your place as well as I do mine.

    "you should never underestimate the power of a positive mind"

    Take Care

    Dragon

    Edited by - kenpodragon on 3 October 2002 13:8:46

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    I think everyone has the right to put faith in what they want, and everyone has the right to say the faith is wrong. It does not change the fact that people believe, like me. It just shows that not everything is right for everyone.

    I find this kind of attitude very worrying. Effectively you're saying "it doesn't matter whether it's true or not. I'm still going to believe it" or "it's true for me, that's all that matters." Does it matter if you believe that a con man like John Edwards has psychic powers, and give him your hard-earned money? Does it matter if you believe that blood transfusions are prohibited by God, and your child dies from lack of blood? Does it matter if you believe that you'll live in eternal bliss if you die while killing Americans, and you crash a 'plane into a skyscraper?

  • joannadandy
    joannadandy

    Hmm I have no opinion on this one...not enough knowledge on the matter, but I don't really care, cuz I am hijacking this thread to say this, and only this:

    Funkyderek-I love your new pic!

    Hee Hee, I've been dying to say something the past few days but was unsure how to bring it up. So there you have it.

    I think it's very funkalicious!

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