by barry 122 Replies latest jw friends
Good point caedes although somewhat romantic.
We all exist close enough to be friends allies and share each others cultural histories. Although go back far enough and we are a melting pot .
Myself I am pictish scots irish and believe it or not north american / canadian indian by way of the hudson bay co'.
Best wishes
There are so many unknowns: pensions, healthcare, defence, benefits ... the "yes" proponents don't seem to have answers for any of the important things like how they will be funded, they just seem to want to shout about 'independence' as though it is the be all and end all without regard to the consequences for real people.
The Scottish parliment was already writing blank cheques for free prescriptions, free university tuition etc... which was bankrolled by England. It's easy to be popular and make out you are achieving things when you give other people's money away for free. It will be much much harder for them to balance the books when they have to fund things themselves and the reality is that they don't have the tax-base and will not be a consideration for the value of the pound and will be a poor relation when it comes to the Euro ... further away from the center of power than they are currently.
Scotland and Wales both have high percentages of people claiming benefits which works when everything is coming from the same large pot (even then it's a big cost). Having everything separated and replicated in each country only ever adds to costs and means more civil servants and politicians, never fewer. They will also need to have a whole tax and revenue body in place - they don't come cheap.
I just don't think the case for the 'yes' vote has been made and instead people are being riled up by nationalistic fervour which is *not* healthy, certainly not to make decisions with such long reaching implications. It's insane that they are ranking as high in the polls as they are but then Scotts have never been known for their rationality - remember when they thought they were going to win the world cup after Archie Gemmel scored a goal? LOL. Seriously, we love the pride in their heritage but the diversity and mix is what made the UK great. The friendly rivalries but ultimate camerarderie when anything serious happened.
I do think it's right that 16 and 17 year olds should be able to vote as they will have to live with the consequences. Ideally it should have been accompanied by unbiased education on both sides of the issue. In fact, I don't think people over a certain age should have a vote as they won't have to live with the impact of the consequences. 70-75 should be the cutoff IMO. Yeah, I know that sounds harsh but it will take 5-10 years for the impact to work through.
I think those with a certain viewpoint should ditch the irrational Scots , who needs them?
Oops seems like everyone esp' westminster wants to hold onto us.
Could it be irrationality has benefits.
I find some comments condescending and disingenuous.
Whether yes or no I hope we can improve the prospects for those who find themselves on benefits or attending foodbanks.
YouGov exit polls show an 8 point lead for the NO campaign. We will know by morning.
Alex Salmond's campaign train, The Flying Scostman. Somebody should have thought about what it would look like with the doors open...
I actually found myself agreeing with an interview with George Galloway - he said the real divide in the UK wasn't Scotland / England or North / South, it's really Westminster / Wealth and "have's" vs the poor, disadvantaged and "have not's".
Having Scotland break away will not fix that, just act as an expensive distraction.
We could potentially have the worst result possible - a yes vote by and incredibly thin margin. If there is a single vote extra the it goes through. Now, imagine when things run into issues all the arguments about whether it should or shouldn't have gone through and who voted yes and who voted no.
Hopefully whatever the outcome is it will be clear and decisive. Most polls for these sorts of things are flattering for 'yes' and bookies are already paying out for 'no' notes so it's not predicted to pass ... but who knows.
It's weird not having any exit polling - I know they weren't always the most precise measure but they at least gave some news and trends before the main results were announced. Do they still wheel John Snow out for election night in the UK? I miss that ...
YouGov exit polls show an 8 point lead for the NO campaign. We will know by morning.
I thought they were banned?! It said something to that effect on the BBC site.
8 points sounds like a healthy margin but it depends who they ask and where.
Remember when labour thought they'd won the 92 general election ...
Great pic, LOL
bookies are already paying out for 'no' notes
Bookies are often the best judge.
The pound has enjoyed a high based on the market's confidence in a NO outcome.
I think declaring the results of exit polls is not allowed until polls have closed.
First results are coming in and it's NO so far ...
They are the smallest comunities and most isolated. You'd imagine they'd be most likely to vote for independence - I wonder if the isolation and dependency on the mainland makes them more cognizant of that dependency and desire for stability?
Former Indian Diplomat B.K.Bhadrakumar reflecting on the possible partitioning of the UK:
However, Britain's demise will not be universally mourned. Britain is fairly widely loathed across continents for its brutal colonial record, for its slyness or deviousness (couched in irritating self-righteousness), for its preachy character (despite its scant regard for morality), for its panache to punch above its weight (from under American wings, of course) and for the sheer zest with which it explodes into violent acts against alien peoples who did no harm to it directly or directly.
There is deep irony here, from the South Asian point of view. The Partition is visiting Britain 67 years after Britain summarily imposed it on the Indian sub-continent. History's revenge? But Britain may still get away paying only a fragment of the price that India paid - and is still paying - for the Caesarian operation it conducted on the subcontinent without even administering anaesthesia.
I can't help brooding for the rest of today and until tomorrow "breakfast time": What a way an empire on which the sun never set may finally cease to exist. The Ottoman Empire was the last one to vanish into thin air. Britain played a magical role then. Oh, the ephemeral nature of all "power" - the way it finally ends! Sound and fury signifying nothing …
Source: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/World/WOR-01-180914.html
And, I can't help reflecting on Bhadrakumar's thoughts. Growing up in country Australia, my school (every school had the same map) had a map of the world with the British Empire colored bright red. (the same red that now splashes the world on the Chinese flag). We were often reminded how lucky we were to be British. And people believed. Not so many years later I was taken in by Christianity, and going H2H one day, an old lady took me to task for refusing to join the army. Drawing herself up to full height - she declared in ringing tones - "Its a great and glorious thing to send your sons to die for your Queen and Country."
But back to B.K Bhadrakumar, not long after WW2 ended, the family moved to another town. There, still infatuated with the British Empire, an infatuation reinforced by my discovery of the Scouting movement and Baden Powell's, Scouting for Boys, a skilfull work for indoctrinating the young with a love for the Empire, a neighbour turned out to be a former soldier in the British Army and had fought in India, Burma and South Africa - for the glory of the Empire. When I showed an interest, he gave me books on the British Indian Army. Soon I knew the regiments by uniform, both ceremonial and battle. My mind resonated with Kipling's Kim and Stalky and Co (British Public School indoctrination to run an empire) and Kipling's verse, like There was once a road through the Woods, which somehow instilled in me a sense of English history:
even the rather condescending, Gunga Din, I read avidly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wFA9zRAhgc
and the even more condescending, The White Man's Burden, written in support of the vicious war that the USA fought to defeat Philippino Nationalists in the American invasion of the Philippines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS__4F8QSNU
Which war was one of the factors that led to Mao Zedong "standing up" in Beijing declaring China free and initiating the PRC. (but that's another story).
So I can see where Bhadrakumar is heading in his Asia Times article. I've been there, walked through those misty English woods, and Australia's eucalypt forests to the edge of a world so different to theirs.
So how many of you are Scots?
Cofty, Besty, Simon?
