Scottish independance in two days what do you think?

by barry 122 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  jgnat

  Pinker had me re-think this desire for indigenous groups for self-determination, in his book, "The Better Angels...." His argument goes like this:

  • Stable borders mean fewer wars/disputes
  • Nations and their borders are relatively stable in the 21st century
  • Clashes these days are chiefly with unsettled disputes with indigenous groups within a nation
  • Once we go down the road of self-determination for every indigenous group, where does it stop? How do we distinguish a deserving indigenous community from an undeserving one?
  • These groups are better off with greater peace if they continue to work within established national boundaries.

  http://www.nobelprize.org/educational/peace/conflictmap/

  Of course, if a leader tries to "wipe out" an indigenous group (rid the problem), the world community should stand in the way and protect them. I am thinking of the Armenians, the Kurds, the native populations in Canada.
• 

  confusedandalone

  " it is fundementaly about democracy ie making our own decisions sink or swim"

  A nation should have complete and total control over their own destiny sink or swim. Imperialism on the wain is a beautiful thing to see. I hope they destroy all those useless royal palaces as well so there is one less place for that useless royal family to go.
• 

  jgnat

  Here are our historical Canadian flag designs:

  

  This is what we adopted in 1964:

  

  I'm with others. It's all motherhood and apple pie and all that, but flag design is the least of my worries. There's the matter of settling disputes, separating administrations, and establishing a currency exchange.
• 

  Simon

  At what point does "independence" need to kick in? Should the Lake District get independence? How about Yorkshire?

  There is value in the "United" part of the Kingdom - the UK is much more powerful and influential as a whole than 4 separate smaller kingdoms.

  I think if it does go through then Scotland will hit problems after the euphoria has died down and in 5-10 years we'll see them wanting to come back but there will be no incentive for the UK to re-admit them and bail them out.

  At least in future though we won't have the warped system where Scottish MPs could vote on Scottish AND English matters but no one else could vote on Scottish concerns.

  They actually had a system that favoured them massively but certain people who could never be PM spy a chance to be King of the smaller pond.
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  The outcome will be a no-go. Fear will have the last say.
• 

  tornapart

  I think it will be very sad. Will Wales be next? Why can't they just keep their identity within sports and leave it at that. A broken up UK will be a disaster. Hopefully the majority of Scots will use their common sense and vote no.
• 

  cofty

  It looks unlikely. The final UGov poll will be published around 10pm tonight but the last poll had NO about 4 points in the lead.

  I am Scottish and I love a lot of things about the country and people but this is about petty nationalism.

  Alex Salmond is a buffoon but the nationalists don't care. They will soon enough if they get their wish.

  Millions were wiped off the value of companies with Scottish links when an opinion poll briefly showed Yes to have a 1 point lead. Imagine what will happen on Friday if it is for real. Major businesses are queing up to leave Scotland.

  Pretending Scotland can keep the UK pound is risible. It's like walking away from a marrige and insisting you are going to go on using the joint credit card.

  The Yes campaign have tried to bully people by linking a vote for independance with love of Scotland. The Irn Bru swilling weegies are falling for it. Let's hope more thoughtful Scots turn out to be in the majority.

  Barry the flag would not be affected.
• 

  Finkelstein

  I would put a guess on the vote as being no.

  .

  Being weighed from the positive to the negative.

  I don't think the separatists made a good enough argument.
• 

  Frazzled UBM

  The bookies have priced in a resounding no vote (I was looking to punt on No but the price was too short) - the press suggesting that a Yes vote is a realistic possibility is for the purpose of making the story more interesting than it really is. Independence is an emotional thing - it is not really in the economic interests of the Scots - there are definite economies of scale in being part of a larger national entity and the government in Westminster gives Scots generous subsidies.

  .
• 

  Simon

  Even the Bank of Scotland has threatened to move to England if the vote is "yes".

  Something like 28bn GBP if investment has been withdrawn from the UK simply because of the vote and uncertainty which is the one thing business really doesn't like.

  Scotland couldn't keep the pound - they would have to either invent their own current (ouch) or more likely, join the Euro ... which would make them less independent than they were as part of the UK.

  Nationalists like these would burn a country to the ground if they could rule the ashes.