Scottish independance in two days what do you think?

by barry 122 Replies latest jw friends

  • galaxie

    Hi joe...I wonder if the Welsh would give up their devolved powers or want more ?

    I agree with you if Scotland gains independence a general election should follow sooner rather than later.

    Re 16 / 17 yr olds ..My understanding is they can consent to sex in legal terms but the adult (teacher etc ) may have a case to answer if coercion , abuse of authority / position comes into question after a complaint..

    The regions you mention re wanting to be self governed , enough people within a region who wish that situation should and would have a democratic right to push towards that aim.

    The difference with that scenario in comparison to Scotland is they are regions within countries.

    Perhaps with a new vision and democratic situation in Scotland their concerns will be better handled.

    I like you have a feeling however that those opposed to independence may prevail, albeit it is too close to call.

    Best wishes.

  • dozy

    I'm voting no and I suspect the result will be about 55 - 45 in favour of no. Thankfully - I honestly feel we have dodged a bullet here.

    Scotland as an independent nation would have been an absolutely basket case. The quality of politicians in Scotland is dire , the country would have tried to introduce a left wing high tax / spending policy without having the revenue to support it and if they decided on "shadowing" the pound then it would all have unwound very messily and presumably Scotland would have had to introduce its own currency ( or joined the euro , if that was possible).

    When the dust has settled , I think secretly Salmond has got what he wanted. In truth , I suspect he never really wanted a referendum but was committed to it when he won a majority in the Scottish Parliament. He isn't a fool ( he was an economist with RBS and knows how bad things would have been. ) He has been granted control over the bulk of tax raising and spending and incredibly has been granted the retention of the Barnett formula. Without the referendum process , this would never have been granted.

    It's a long game and perhaps in another 15 / 20 years , there will be another referendum. By then Scotland may well be virtually a federal state and the transition would be much smoother. I suspect then there will be a strong majority in favour of independence. That would make a lot more sense - for such a momentous change like this , you really need to convince most of the country. The concept that trying to make changes on this scale when virtually half the population are against it seems really foolish to me.

  • Joe Grundy
    Joe Grundy

    Hi galaxie

    1. IME a lot of the Welsh have been quite horrified at what it has cost. Many arguments could arise re (for example) free prescription medicines for all.

    2. 16/17 year olds - this is a big problem IMO. It is absolutely verboten for a teacher etc. to have sex with a pupil under 18 (criminal offence). It is also an offence to have an 'indecent image' of an under-18 yo. So if a soldier (for example) is legally married to a 17 yo wife and she texts him a picture of her tits to keep him company on the battlefield, he is a sex offender ('paedophile') and maybe so is she. The law is clear, and it is a sad state of affairs if authorities have to wriggle about. By the same token, a 16 yo can vote but NOT be trusted to buy cigarettes (verboten) or beer in a pub (ditto). Are 16/17 yos children or adults?

    3. Ah, regions within countries. How far back should we go? The Cornish have affinity to the Welsh and the Bretons. France and Spain are relatively recent modern 'countries'. As I understand it, the 'Scots' were never really a unified people any more than the Welsh are nowadays.

    4. On the same point, is the US now really unified? History would suggest not - the US was formed comparively recently by colonial conquest, purchase, intrigue, etc.

    I must confess that I have a wry smile when ANY country seeks to stress its unique heritage. The more we learn about history and pre-history and the movement of peoples, the more we realise that we are all the product of immigration, inter-breeding, and so on.

    Just as a recent example - in Wales, some people are hung up on the Welsh 'mining heritage'. They overlook the fact that many immigrants came to Wales for jobs in mining, etc. My own family were, I think, Hugueonauts from Europe but my paternal family were robust, Welsh-speaking, colliers.

    The latest news shows not only the presence of Neanderthal in our genes but also the DNA of groups who migrated from Siberia, Africa, Southern Europe, etc. IMHO it's time that the world's people came to recognise that we are all homo sapiens and we'd better start to get on with each other. But that's just me.

  • The Scotsman
    The Scotsman

    The choice is hope or fear.... I place my vote later today...

  • cofty

    The choice is hope or fear....

    I see Salmond's fear mongering has done it's job.

  • galaxie

    Hi joe,, You make some good debating points, most historical.

    The present question is about democratic self governance, not Alex salmond , who will in my estimation be quickly voted out.

    Nor is it about unique history, I agree with you on that premis,

    Would you egree that Scotland has the right to decide it's own self determination?

    Best wishes.

  • tim hooper
    tim hooper

    The UK is a nuclear power. It keeps its weapons in Scotland. They'll have to be moved or destroyed, the Scots don't want to be part of a nuclear partnership. That could affect the US and other countries too.

  • newdawnfades

    All this speculation is pointless. I have been assured by an elder that the vote will be NO. Any other result would break up part of the anglo american world power. He conveniently ignores the fact that a large portion of Ireland broke away less than 100 years ago.

  • galaxie

    Hi tim...the US and other countries are absolutely entitled to handle their defence strategy as they think fit according to democratic process decision making.

    Would anyone argue Scotland is not?

    The nuclear question as a deterrent is for another thread me thinks?

    Best wishes.

  • Caedes

    Caedes...Scottish culture will remain.

    We would still remain part of these islands, we are not drifting into the atlantic.

    Best wishes

    I was not implying that scottish culture would cease to exist that would be a stupid thing to say, I am saying that culturally the united kingdom will be poorer if scotland is no longer part of it. I would say the same thing about cornwall, we have our fair share of people who think that cornwall should be independant.

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