the flood, mammoths, elphants, and food.

by Crazyguy 280 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • prologos
    prologos

    Crazyguy, I mistook you for Darth frosty, so please read my post 4050 above.

    The water surface in a supposed Everest-high flood would not have been darthy dark or frosty ICE . Nor a near vaccuum, nor cold.

    According to the tall tale (everest is tall after all) the water fell as rain, and also came from deep wells (hot springs). It was a churning mass with extra energy and surrounded by a near- normal- pressure atmosphere at whatever altitude the water lifted to.

    There was no flood, no ark, and therefore

    Ark stuck in ice?

    no dice.

    PS: The Franklin expedition wreck, stuck in ice, sunk and now found in Canada, was not the ark, but the crew perished as they tried to return to hospitable land. so much for the chance of the Ark's survivors to go back to THEIR habitat, trying to traverse an inhospitabe, devastated landscape, surely as dangerous, just a little warmer than the arctic.

  • seawolf
    seawolf

    The thing that always got me is Noah preached about the flood, but how was that possible? It had NEVER rained so there would be no word for rain. Since it had never rained then it had never flooded so there would be no word for flood. Now how then would it be possible to tell people about it raining and flooding when no words existed for those events? Noah convincing someone of this future event ranks about a 0% from where I'm standing. If God had downloaded knowledge to Noah's cognitive server and no one else outside of Noah's group of merry men were privy to that then it's unrealistic to expect anyone to believe them. Sure Noah could have said "water will fall from the heavens and cover everything 1,000 cubits deep" but again no one had ever seen that so why would anyone believe him?

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    I learned something interesting about that teaching recently, seawolf. It seems that the Society has not actually taught for a while that it hadn't rained before the Flood: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/119334/1/Rain-before-Noahs-flood#2101190.

  • seawolf
    seawolf

    wow thanks for the old new light! I missed Jehovah's celestial chariot just one time and look at what happens!

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    dark frosty, of all the arguments against the ARK story, your's is the one that hold no water, because

    *sigh*, here we go again...

    Like the rising tide that lifts all boats, the air would have been merely lifted up, and with a new sea level still be at it's maximum at that new lowest possible altitude, quite warm too with all that energy of motion.

    Yes, it would have been lifted, but not at the same density, because...

    mass now BELOW the ark would have increased the surface gravity, and with it the pressure and the temperature at the new sea level.

    Actually, the opposite would happen. The large large large majority of gravitational pull from earth comes from the denser rocks, metals, mantle, etc., not water. Adding 8800+ meters of LESS dense material will actually decrease the overall strength of the gravitational field over the given surface, not decrease it. It's the same reason Saturn, with much more mass than Earth, has about the same gravitional pull at the surface. It's all about density.

    Pushing the atmosphere that high while weakening the surface gravity would have allow massive amounts of the atmosphere to bleed off into space, lightening the atmosphere and making it much colder still that it previously would have been.

  • stuckinarut2
  • prologos
    prologos

    Gravity works at the inverse square of distance, and a close-by mass exerts much more power than a far away one, and

    the supposed water canopy was ABOVE the earth's surface , LESSENING gravity, or being gravitational neutral*, after the rains, all that mass is below the surface ADDING to the gravity.

    Gravity at the summit of Mt Everest would have been greater at the peak of the supposed flood than before or after. Where there was air before,or since, during the flood there was the more dense mass. 2500 times heavier than air at sea level pressure! ADDED to the normal gravity at that heights!

    The flood water mostly came from above the surface ( the supposed canopy) they added to the surface gravity no matter how high that surface was lifted.

    Even without the water induced gravity and the rising lighter water vapors, would a 3/1000 nd decline of gravity cause the lifted atmosphere to be depleted in 9 month of stress?

    * it can be mathimatically shown that in a sphere, any outside shell is gravitational neutral, neither adds nor subtracts from the interior gravity, at the center it becomes Zero. besides:

    the heat energy released by the descent of 8km of water from great heights would have never caused a decrease in temperature. picture trillions of hoover dams powering heating coils. to repeat: gravity at the top of mt everest was greater during the flood than before and after.

    the flood

    is a dud.PS. The question was about atmospheric pressure , new heights would have reduced it by not more than .5 %. Massive heating from the gravitational contraction of the high (fictional) water canopy.

    claiming there would be ice

    is not nice.

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    Gravity works at the inverse square of distance, and a close-by mass exerts much more power than a far away one, and

    the supposed water canopy was ABOVE the earth's surface , LESSENING gravity, or being gravitational neutral*, after the rains, all that mass is below the surface ADDING to the gravity.

    That's really not even an argument you can pretend to begin to make without knowing how far away the canopy was, how dense it was, or how much water was already on the earth.

    In other words, you don't have any basis for making that claim.

    Gravity at the summit of Mt Everest would have been greater at the peak of the supposed flood than before or after. Where there was air before,or since, during the flood there was the more dense mass. 2500 times heavier than air at sea level pressure! ADDED to the normal gravity at that heights!

    Greater where? Also, there was more mass, but less dense. Heavier isn't really a valid term in this sense. Also, all gravity is normal, there is no such thing as "abnormal" gravity.

    The flood water mostly came from above the surface ( the supposed canopy) they added to the surface gravity no matter how high that surface was lifted.

    Yeah, which has nothing to do with my comments but everything to do with yours. You're making claims about things you can't possibly know.

    * it can be mathimatically shown that in a sphere, any outside shell is gravitational neutral, neither adds nor subtracts from the interior gravity, at the center it becomes Zero.

    FANTASTIC! Show the math. I am incredibly curious to know how mass, a lot of it, is gravitationally neutral and won't affect anything near it. Besides, you inadverdently just destroyed your argument, the water would now be the shell and neutral, according to you.

    besides: the heat energy released by the descent of 8km of water from great heights would have never caused a decrease in temperature. picture trillions of hoover dams powering heating coils.

    The Hoover damn spins turbines. It's not even the same type of argument. You're so off, you're no even wrong.

    Do your math physics before. to repeat: gravity at the top of mt everest was greater during the flood than before and after.

    That doesn't even make sense. I would love to see that math.

    .PS. The question was about atmospheric pressure , new heights would have reduced it by not more than .5 %. Massive heating from the gravitational contraction of the high (fictional) water canopy.

    Only if you make up conditions about this water canopy. Go ahead. I'll wait.

    In the meantime, the current gravitational acceletation for the surface of the earth is 9.8m/s^2 (including the water). The average density of the earth is 5.52g/cm^3. The average density of water is about 1 g/cm^3. The current volume of the earth is about 10.8e+12 m^3. Doing some quick work in Wolfram Alpha show that that to add enough volume to the earth to cover Mt. Everest would be a difference of about 4557e+12 m^3, almost as much mass as the Earth has, so therefore... hmmm, interesting. I'm wrong. By orders of magnitude.

    I am wrong about the gravity. The orders of magnitude are completely off on the density of mass without a corresponding or greater increase in the radius.

    So there you go, I am wrong, but not for the reasons you said. Math is a wonderful thing. It shows us the shell is NOT gravitationally neutral. Without some more modeling, we can't tell what the temperature would be, but, it won't be, as you said, .5% decrease. There would have been a massive, massive increase in air pressure.

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    At the end of the day, the math shows the volume of water needed to cover Mt. Everest is almost the same as the Earth is today and would require a greater volume of water than *is* on the earth today. If someone claims the water is still here, then we are left with an earth that was completely barren of water or an earth with no water on it at all and less rock and metal and therefore less gravity.

    OTOH, less gravity would mean humans, if they could survive without water could grow taller. I'VE JUST PROVEN NEPHILIM COULD EXIST! Checkmate, atheists!

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    Stuckin I too thought about posting those videos, there hilarious!!!!!

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