by seekchristonly 194 Replies latest watchtower bible
GMJALMT - Go away
if atheism is your accepted understanding is it therefore not the bases for your belief system ? - Caliber
No. Atheism only means that I don't accept the irrational claims of theism. That is not a foundation to build anything on. It is a rejection of one explanation of the world.
WHo taught the first children to programme them to believe as they had no parent.
Huh?
There must have been children before adults even in the primal sludge
How is that related to the topic? There was still no first human.
SCO/Macuk is back with a new ID
"...maybe not a belief in God but belief in something... it seems logical to me each must have a base foundation to arrive at personal conclusions and convicts by which they live. Otherwise do you not flounder in uncertainty.... morality is an ever present issue." - caliber
Morals are a socio-cultural evolution that changes in time within humanity. Moralities are sets of self-perpetuating and ideologically-driven behaviors which encourage human cooperation. That’s why we live in societies. Social animals, from ants to elephants, have modified their behaviors, by restraining immediate selfishness in order to improve their evolutionary fitness. Human morality though sophisticated and complex relative to other animals, is essentially a natural phenomenon. Gods or religion has anything to do with or morals.
Morality is derived from the Latin moralitas, or “manner, character, and proper behavior.” Morality has to do with how you act toward others. In societies they have always be present to some extents. You can, of course, act in a way that has no effect on anyone else, and in this case morality isn’t involved. But given the choice between acting in a way that increases someone else’s moral good or not, it is more moral to do so than not.
We need an evolutionary understanding of where a strong sense of right and wrong comes from as an instinct, and a neurobiological account of how our brains function or not when they engage in ethical reasoning.
What is the purpose of my life ? - caliber
Only you know the answer to this question.
What is acceptable conduct within a community ? - caliber
Morality involves conscious choice, and the choice to act in a manner that increases someone else’s moral good, then, is a moral act, and its opposite is an immoral act. Rape is bad, whether or not god say it, rape is bad. Yet God offers no prohibition against rape, and in fact seems to encourage it in many instances as a perquisite of war for victors.
What are noble goals for my life and family ? - caliber
See above
What are the standards I have taught my children? - caliber
See above
Cofty do atheist have convictions about life ? - caliber
See above
So, if you found out that their is no god, will you start killing people tomorrow morning? If the answer is NO, their you go, you are a moral person.
Ismael
ps Lets continue with our regular schedule debate, I didn't know that my lack of believe was a believe.
Caliber on page 8:
The final question is.. where do you put your hopes, trust and faith ?.... that will tell you what your belief system really is grounded on.
One single aspect of my beliefs does not define a belief system. There are those that are total pessimists and have no hopes and trust nobody. There are those that believe in God and have no hopes from Him nor trust him.
To assume that an atheist puts their hopes, trust, and faith in something just because he is an atheist is wrong. But I see your problem and why you would think so. Because atheists would often know what not to trust- like religion or an invisible God, and many would turn to science and logic.
To answer the question set to me, currently there is no scientific evidence that states that people are born with a desire or a need to worship anything or any one. Just because some people want that to be so doesn't mean it exists.
Some people are born with a propensity for gullibility or a non-inquisitive demeanor that can manifest itself into a desire to worship and become satisfied with the answers of faith. But a directional necessity for someone else's concept of god is not present.
And if it were, then ideas such as Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, witches, wizards, Mother Earth, money (greed), Allah, and the like should not be discounted because all these “beliefs” constitute a fulfillment of that need. Therefore, if someone claims that there is a genetic desire to worship, but NOT a genetic desire to worship Santa Clause... it is evident that someone is trying to give validity to an argument that is personally biased and bigoted.
'You're not hardwired to worship ANY god, you are only hardwired to worship THEIR god.' The "need" is not only real, but it's deity specific. I don't buy that.
Knowledge for me came from PAYING ATTENTION IN LIFE, not from a book. Everyone is so focused on their f**king churches, they forget what it's like to actually learn of one's own accord from social settings. A sigular pinpoint example: As a child, we may have hurt someone at school with our words. The other child hurting made us feel bad... we got in trouble with the teacher. Then fellow students are upset with us and don't socialize with us. Later all is forgiven and we move on learning how NOT to harm others... completely without the knowledge of a church, god, reciting the ten commandments, or the daily text reading every morning. Just because some people pay attention and come to better conclusion than those who spend years praying shouldn't mean we are discounted by the simple mindedness of those who don't get it.
As I mentioned before, the only reason this argument exists is so that those who believe in god can corner themselves in a pocket and excuse away something they do no want to admit is true. That's it. And for such, I personally feel no atheist should further engage in this conversation of those in purposeful denial. I like "white." That's it. There's no real discussion on the matter.
So for my part, this is my last post on the subject.
there is no scientific evidence that states that people are born with a desire or a need to worship anything or any one
Identical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity. Which particular religion a person chooses is entirely environmental however.
there is no scientific evidence that states that people are born with a desire or a need to worship anything or any one
Thomas Bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.
The correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to jsut 2% for the latter. His colleague. Kathryn Corson repeated the study with a different set of questions and got similar results - 69% for monozygotic twins raised apart and no correlation for dizygotic twins.
Similar huge differences were also found by large studies in Australia.
McCourt, Bouchard, Lykken, Tellegen & Keyes 1999 cited in "Nature via Nurture" by Matt Ridley
"no scientific evidence that states that people are born with a desire or a need to worship anything or any one. Just because some people want that to be so doesn't mean it exists." - BackseatDevil
Science is working on it.
http://www.senecac.on.ca/quarterly/2005-vol08-num01-winter/reviews/doughty3.html
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/nov/14/20041114-111404-8087r/
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene
"Skeptics among you might say that the twin studies showing similarity for belief are just reflecting some cultural or family influence that wasn't properly corrected for in the study design. However in one study of adopted twins, the researchers looked at religious belief in a number of adopted twins raised apart. They found exactly the same result--greater similarity in identical twin pairs, even if raised apart. The conclusion is unavoidable: faith is definitely influenced by genes."
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-08/what-twins-reveal-about-god-gene
