Atlanta Int Convention 2014:The Big Party. Does this look like WT believes Armageddon is coming "soon"?

by AndDontCallMeShirley 173 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    Johnamos: Suppose for a minute that JWs are Jah's chosen people. It seems that if they are, then they are paralleling some time in the history of Israel when the Israelites strayed from true worship and needed a major cleansing/discipline.’

    .

    Really??

    According to WT, there isn't enough time left for a "major cleansing". Armageddon is imminent, remember??

    Besides, by your reasoning then, John, this puts every JW in a conundrum, doesn't it? IF the WT is "God's Organization", and a JW has no choice but to obey the WT unquestioningly to stay in Jehovah's™ good graces, then, by following the rules, every JW must be at odds with Jehovah™ in order to obediently please Jehovah™.

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    kneehighmiah - in response to your last post - . I agree with it all.

    it's no wonder they want to fire dinosaurs like Fred Franz and Milton G and are booting DOs and old people. They need to make being a JW cool. The website shows young adults traveling the world to preach and cool stuff They're are almost taking a page out of the us army and navy recruitment playBook. I'M not surprised that the focus is not on spiritual things but on having the time of your life. It's a different org. I think it will backfire though. It's hard to be totalitarian and secular at the same time. Just ask the Soviets. The org was founded on the belief that Armageddon was imminent. Once people stop believing that, what do they have left besides the social aspect?

    Very good points. It does seem that they are trying to make being a JW cool. I think that is the underlying principle behind a lot of what we're seeing. It is a different org. It's interesting to watch the developments; it's like some kind of study in sociology or psychology or cultural anthropology. I hadn't thought about the fact the website shows young people preaching in a way that seems cool and exciting - so different from the way I preached - sweating, getting eaten by bugs, looking down the barrels of guns, etc. in boring neighborhoods. It is like they're taking a page out of the army or navy recruitment literature.

    So maybe they are trying to morph into something hip and cool and they want all the old schoolers (who, although not perfect, seemed more spiritual and noble) gone. Maybe they knew that a lot of the older DOs woudn't go along with this new feel, so they gave them boot.

    Interesting analogy to the Soviets. It didn't work. That's why I believe Putin is trying to go back to the old totalitarian ways.

    "Once people stop believing that, what do they have left besides the social aspect?" It does seem that JWs don't have the sense of urgency about the end that we had when I was at my prime as a JW, and especially in the pre-1975 era and the pre-1994 era (1914 + 80 year max generation). So, I think you're right; they're focusing on social things and entertainment and appealing to people in other ways.

    If they were Israelites in the time of ancient Israel. they would be due a visit from a prophet who would give them a major scolding and a prediction of major punishment.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    Watch this Mormon promotional video and tell me if it looks or feels any different than a WT video?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=7kRc5T03xEU

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    AndDontCallMeShirley:

    Really??

    According to WT, there isn't enough time left for a "major cleansing". Armageddon is imminent, remember??

    Besides, by your reasoning then, John, this puts every JW in a conundrum, doesn't it? IF the WT is "God's Organization", and a JW has no choice but to obey the WT unquestioningly to stay in Jehovah's™ good graces, then, by following the rules, every JW must be at odds with Jehovah™ in order to obediently please Jehovah™.

    Suppose (hypothetically), that JWs are God's people as were the Israelites of old. At times, Israel strayed so far from true worship as to be unrecognizable as the people of God. At times they had idols right in the temple! Same (and this still is a hypothetical) could be true of JWs. Sure, according to them, the end is imminent, but, according to them a generation was eigthy years and the end should have been here at the latest by 1994. As far as the conundrum issue goes, what would have been the case with a righteous Israelite in a time when the nation as a whole had strayed? He would have sort of stayed on the sidelines and watched and sighed and waited for correction - pointing out the wrong... not obeying leaders who might have instructed him to follow the crowd.

    I'm not saying that's true. I'm just thinking about that. I don't think there is a conundrum when you consider what I said in the paragraph above.

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    AndDontCallMeShirley -

    I just watched the Mormon promotional video you linked above. Yes, same look and feel. "Look at us Mormons. We're so normal, fun-loving, and exciting." JWs are trying to be that way since they realize that the door-to-door work by mostly clueless Puritan-looking folks who can't answer questions is not working.

  • GrreatTeacher
    GrreatTeacher

    Magnum, there were pioneers. But, they were either wives supported by their husbands, young people supported by their parents or retired folks with pensions.

    I think when those types of talks about Can you do more since we are so close to the end? were given, they were taken at face value as a question and the answer in these parts was No, I can't do it personally since I have a family and a mortgage, but I could support my wife in doing so or my adult child in doing so. And, I can always pioneer when I retire.

    I grew up in Pennsylvania circuit #5. This is the next state over from New York. Is it because we're closer to headquarters? I don't know where you live, but is it a regional thing?

    I have lots of questions about this, but I'm beginning to understand that despite their claims of absolute unity and its proof of divine blessing, this is just like any other organization in that it is affected by regional and cultural differences.

  • NewYork44M
    NewYork44M

    Thanks for the link ADCMS. It seems the Watchtower is copying the playbook of the Mormons. I guess you can't argue with success. What works for one cult should work for another. But then again there is that blood issue and the no education stance - jws still come up wacky.

  • cultBgone
    cultBgone

    Kneehigh: Magnum and ADCMS I feel like the governing body are just figureheads, mascots. The real bosses are the greedy corporation presidents. Would anyone trust Anthony Morris, Sam herd or Lett to run their business what business experience do those guys have? They were just bethel and circuit slaves. The real bosses are cutting deals with cities, grabbing money from congregations, hiring "worldly" production companies to make slick marketing videos, promoting their website etc. it's no wonder they want to fire dinosaurs like Fred Franz and Milton G and are booting DOs and old people. They need to make being a JW cool. The website shows young adults traveling the world to preach and cool stuff They're are almost taking a page out of the us army and navy recruitment playBook. I'M not surprised that the focus is not on spiritual things but on having the time of your life. It's a different org. I think it will backfire though. It's hard to be totalitarian and secular at the same time. Just ask the Soviets. The org was founded on the belief that Armageddon was imminent. Once people stop believing that, what do they have left besides the social aspect?

    It stands to reason that the same marketing and financial corporations are used by the Mormons, JWs, even the Catholic Church. Remember the catholic church's PR campaign about Come Home? Don't know if it was worldwide but certainly all over the media in the US.

  • johnamos
    johnamos

    Shirley,

    First off what you quoted me as saying is really what I quoted Magnum as saying.

    Second:

    Quote- According to WT, there isn't enough time left for a "major cleansing". Armageddon is imminent, remember??” - End quote

    It does not matter what they say, they are lying and teaching untruth in these regards. The fact is there is enough time and that is what the GT is about and obviously that comes just prior to Armageddon.

    Quote- Besides, by your reasoning then, John, this puts every JW in a conundrum, doesn't it? IF the WT is "God's Organization", and a JW has no choice but to obey the WT unquestioningly to stay in Jehovah's™ good graces, then, by following the rules, every JW must be at odds with Jehovah™ in order to obediently please Jehovah. - End quote

    JW’s do have a choice rather to obey the WT unquestioningly and for those that do are not in Jehovah’s good grace but are at odds with him for doing so. It is really the opposite position of what you stated.

    Jehovah says that he will bring this final attack upon his people for that reason…

    13 And Jehovah says: “For the reason that this people have come near with their mouth, and they have glorified me merely with their lips, and they have removed their heart itself far away from me, and their fear toward me becomes men’s commandment that is being taught,

    23 And the nations will have to know that it was because of their error that they, the house of Israel, went into exile, on account of the fact that they behaved unfaithfully toward me, so that I concealed my face from them and gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and they kept falling, all of them, by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I did with them, and I kept concealing my face from them.’… 26 And they will have borne their humiliation and all their unfaithfulness with which they have acted toward me, when they dwell on their soil in security, with no one to make [them] tremble.

    18 O how the domestic animal has sighed! [How] the droves of cattle have wandered in confusion! For there is no pasturage for them. Also, the droves of the sheep have been the ones made to bear guilt.

    20 “Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·de´a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her; 22 because these are days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those days! For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.

    2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple [sanctuary], cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    It seems the Watchtower is copying the playbook of the Mormons.

    They sure as hell did with Family Worship Night.

    Doc

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