Thanks
Will check in later. Going to leave for work.
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade 126 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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Gypsy Sam
Welcome, I love your user name and outlook. I missed a bunch of newbies. Glad you have all joined!
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John_Mann
Welcome to real (virtual) world, ML!
Greetings from Brazil!
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Band on the Run
My preference for talks was always Knorr over Franz. I grew up hearing how brilliant Freddie was. Family served at Bethel so he was always Freddie at home. His talk on 1975 is clear in my memory. He said 1975. My mom's family went back to Bible Students day. She had told me of all the failures in the past. She never got over not meeting David, Solomon, and Moses at the convention. My mom made a special outfit and hat to meet them. She was crushed. Altho I was a teen, I was shocked Freddie would give a date with that history. I recall scunching down in my chair to hide myself. It was going to be one subway ride home. He even talked about Eve's menstrual cycle. Hearing about menstrual cycles from Freddie was too much for this early teen girl. They were not discussed in public during that time period. Somehow hearing it from Freddie made it much worse. Female gym teachers taught this stuff.
I've remarked that any Bethelite knew how most Witnesses were taking the 1975 announcement. It was not the rank and file's fault. Perhaps he needed to speak more clearly and for fewer hours. They had years to clarify the remarks. I was certain that 1975 was a dumb date. Yet I lived in terror. Weird weather patterns would scare my entire family.
I also recall that those of us at Yankee Stadium were cautioned not to share 1975 with the world yet. It was secret Witness information for now. Within a few months, a sister threatened me with death at 1975. I picked up the home phone to call Bethel. She was so scared. We faded before 1975.
I was not very interested when I found this site by clicking on wikipedia links. Most titles were boring. I stumbled upon a few that had names that I grew up hearing from my parents and other relatives. It seemed an opportunity might be missed. Now I am addicted.
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LisaRose
BOTR, Wow, , very interesting about your mother and the new dress and hat to meet David and Soloman, it's hard to imagine. I got indoctrinated into the cult in 1969, so I can personally attest that, yes, they did predict the end would likely come in 1975. It's amazing that most JWs now believe otherwise, even if they were around back then, they remember what they were told about what happened, not what actually happened. Well, it's not surprising, memory is somewhat elastic, just ask any cop who relies on eyewitness testimony, it's notoriously unreliable.
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Make Lemonade
Band on the run: Great to hear first hand history. I mentioned one elder who believed 1975 was the end. When 1975 came and went He was treated like a veteran who returned from a war and greeted as "a baby killer". In my opinion it was slow torture for him. I loved him as a person for all that he did for me. Those who denied the facts about 1975 absolutly hurt those who sincerely believed that 1975 was the end.
At a D.C. I heard a talk about what the society had said about 1975. It was brought out that the brothers found 8 comments regarding 1975. Four could be taken as pro 1975 being the end, and 4 that said 1975 should not counted on as the end. Also the speaker said something close to this: "It is unfortunate that many paid attention to the 4 comments favorable to 1975 being the end, and not to the 4 comments that are unfavorable to 1975 being the end" . I was an attendant who happened upon the speaker and took the opportunity to express how important I thought his talk was. He told me "it was the first time the society was apoligizing for what happened about 1975". I was relieved and excited that people like my friend would receive some relief.
That relief was quickly extinguished when I excitedly said to a witness at the same assembly: That talk was an apology for what the society said regarding 1975". The response: "Apology?, the society has nothing to apologies for". I was stunned since the speaker had just told me it was an apology. Looking back it all fits a pattern. That pattern can be summed up by a cliche, "That is the way the Watchtower dog hunts".
Gypsy Sam and John Mann: Nice to meet you. This site is better than the old Ham radio for connecting to the world
LisaRose: I have read your comments on other posts. I recognize words of wisdom born from expierance. Thanks for sharing.
I am sticking around home today and will return shortly with something to share.
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Make Lemonade
Even though the anouncement has not been made that I am dissfellowshipped, it has proved to be a real benefit for me and my family.
Some background will help you to appreciate the above statement. I stepped down as an elder in 2008. Between 2008 and 2010 I served as "an elder without the title". That designation was coined by two elders who never wanted me to step down in the first place. I rather liked the idea of doing things because I wanted to. So, after a period of my serving without the title, one elder said to me: "you never missed a beat in serving your brothers" . Of course I had the nasty elders working from the shadows with their hidden agenda. We have to leave that part for another time. Anyway, I put in pioneer hours without signing up. Spent much time visiting friends in the hospital. I Continued to act on behalf of patients representing their wishes about blood. Many of the friends including elders sought my advice. Gradually I came to realize that I needed to put distance between myself and the congregation. I let the elders know my reasons for not attending and without exception they all agreed with my reasons. My staying would cause divisions and nobody wanted that.
Even though I put some distance between myself and the congregation many friends have continued to ask for help and show concern. We were happy to be cordial and helpful when possible. Never did we become aggressive or make any overt actions. Basically responded to the events as they arose. Being subpoenaed by the New York Corporation of Jehovah's Witnesses was a big deal. We have wrapped that up by being notified that I will be D.F.d. Now to the point.
Two days ago we recieved a phone call at 10:30 p.m., from a disfellowshipped male witness. He wanted help from me. He asked if he could stay at my home for a few days. In the past we gave him and his wife support. Lent them money. Hired him when he was out of work. Things like that. What was different about this time was our knowledge of why he is D.F.d. His wife recently told me "things she did not tell the elders" about this individual. No way could I put my family in harm's way. My answer to him was: "I am D.F.d and it would be impossible for you to stay here". I gave him the phone # of the elders who are working with him. Also, told him to call me back if they would not do anything for you. After he hung up we looked up shelters and considered other secular assitance to help him.
We recieved no more calls from him and count it as a protection that we avoided a dangerous situation.
That is how to Make Lemonade
Peace to you all
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Make Lemonade
It was announced that I am now DFd. So far that feels pretty good from my point of view. Other good news is that I think the victim and family intend to tell their story. Their case is officially over in the courts. They are in the drivers seat as far as how to warn others. Just had some very good news to share with you all.
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never a jw
Welcome ML. Thank you for your service to righteous causes. Keep the posts coming.
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Make Lemonade
One frustration of dealing with the legal system, is that each case has to stand on it's own, so to speak. You have to present reasoning specific to your case. What you know about other cases can not always be presented in your case. You could know testimony from the Australian hearings, Candace Conti, Menlo Park, and Compos cases. When you see contradictions in testimony it shows a legal strategy crafted for each individual case. Those are the rules that must be obeyed in court. However, an individual who has been exposed to this behavior is forced to see that something is wrong.
When you point out these "contradictions" to witnesses, one gets a varied, but essentially dismissive response. "When you are dealing with the world, you have to act like the world". "Theocratic warfare", " I am a lawyer by day and an elder at night", etc..
One goal being considered by me is to make a clear concise presentation that captures these contradicting positions and then ask a rhetorical question:
Is this the way that God's channel of comunication should conduct itself on a world wide basis?