that should be criticism and disrespect
They are Definitely Attacking "Higher Education"
by XBEHERE 129 Replies latest jw friends
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leaving_quietly
thedog1 - so many of the elderly feel that the congregation does not support them... this is a common theme. I've seen it many, many times. It's often very much the other way around, as you've stated. I do take a minor issue with your first statement, though:
Care of elderly relatives should be the responsibility of their children or the state if there is any provision for that. Full stop. Not the congregation.
Yes, relatives, children and any state/governmental aid should absolutely come first. However, when these are not available, the congregation is under obligation to do so. 1 Tim 5:3-15 discusses this subject. Verses 3-8 discuss the family's help. Verses 9 and 10 discuss the congregation's help. In verses 11-14, Paul is emphasizing that younger widows really should seek their own care. Verse 15 emphasizes that the family should take care of the older ones, and relieve the congregation of the burden. These verses give the impression that the congregation does have the responsibility, but only as a last resort.
In some cases, the congregation may seek to find state aid for the person, other programs that can help. Because, let's face it, most in the congregations are not in a position to assist with some of the major issues that face elderly ones, especially the financial matters related to hospitalization. However, financial aid wouldn't be a bad thing. Remember, in the first century, there was the "daily distribution", which would be the equivalent of financial aid, or at least providing food, today.
JWs say they model themselves after the first century congregation. I've seen this to be far from the truth. The "daily distribution", this "list" Paul talks about, is just not there. After I re-read the Bible, I noticed a more prevailing theme than the Kingdom, and it's something God uttered denouncement against Israel for, and that is their poor treatment of the "fatherless boy" (or orphan) and "widow" . Read Isaiah 1:18,23; Isaiah 10:1; Jeremiah 5:28; Jeremiah 7:6,7; Jeremiah 22:1-4; Jeremiah 49:11; Ezekiel 22:7; Zechariah 7:8-10; Malachi 3:5; James 1:27.
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wearewatchingyouman
LMAO... Whatever dude. Go get your jolly's off ruining more people's life. Merry Xmas.
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thedog1
maybe I was too direct in my statement. In our own cong it was discussed with the co that if somebody was in need and family and gov organ. could not help that the congregation would step in. This was, as you mentioned quoting scripture, to be as a last resort. We had a case recently where a family were in a bad situation, as they could not meet rental payments and the bro in question had not gotten a promised pension. This bro came to the elders for help. It turned out that his wife's family owned a piece of land that she could sell to buy a derelict house in our territory. The money she got from the sale only barely covered the purchase of the house, so the local bros donated huge amounts of time and effort, and paid for the materials to refurbish the house out of their own pockets. Now this family have their own home due to the generosity of the local bros. This same family were often given bags of food or prepared meals by the local bros many times after the meetings.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
"Care of elderly relatives should be the responsibility of their children or the state if there is any provision for that. Full stop. Not the congregation. We recently had a case where an extremely incapacitated sister requested financial aid from the congregation."
That is the policy of WT, but what does the Bible say? The first century congregation had an arrangement of collecting and distributing to the needy and elderly. Jesus said that generosity to those in need would be repaid by God. There is far more scriptural support for christian congregations providing charity than for christians to preach door to door.
As far as expecting the children to support needy relatives, that may be okay if they're all JWs. But what of the pioneer couple that became JWs decades ago despite the objections of their families, and this couple followed JW advice to not have kids until the "new system"? They preached to their nonJW family about the WT truthz that gift-giving around the holidays and birthdays is evil, and that armageddon was coming very soon to destroy nonJWs... like in 1975. Now it's 2014, they're sick, tired, and penniless. So now they're supposed to beg charity from the family that they alienated decades ago? And since JWs condemn the government as being satanic and soon to be destroyed, what kind of a message are they sending when they take out their government-funded card to pay for their groceries, and get in line for government benefits when they've never really paid into the system? Doesn't it admit by their actions that they put their trust in the government and that god can do nothing to help them?
Why shouldn't an extremely incapacitated sister be able to request help from the congregation? You realize that perfectly healthy brothers and couples with enough free time to support themselves with jobs are getting paid very well by WT Corp, circuits, local congregations, and get green handshakes on top of it all? They're called circuit overseers and district overseers.
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wearewatchingyouman
Thanks Billy, I apologize if my language offended you TheDog1. I realize i shouldn't hold your cult mentality against you, but it's hard when it's men who hold the same position as yourself put people in these situationsThis little scenario hits right at home for me. My grandmother has been a fulltime/special pioneer for the last 50 years of her life. Never worked a day in her life. She lost her home when my grandfather died. She recieves a small amount of social security for him, but not for herself since she never worked. Most of her kids refuse to give her money due to her treatment of them and/or her refusal to not give a portion of that money to the WBTS. Her other children/ grandchildren are witnesses and can barely afford to take care of themselves. Basically, another one of her grandchildren and I give her as much as we can and that's what she survives off of. She gave her entire life to this line of BS, and what does she get for it? Jack shit in one hand and the delusion of everlasting life for her service to "the spoof" in the other.
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thedog1
Billy, a severely incapacitated person maybe should be able to accept help from the cong, but in this case the relatives did not need the help, and the cong had been helpful in multiple ways, visiting, and giving all sorts of material and emotional support. The cong was not shirking its duty at all. Wearewatching youman, apology accepted. Personally, I have never encouraged anyone to put themselves in a situation where they are in the situation your grandmother is in. I understand you are in a difficult situation in trying to do the best you can for someone who has in a sense painted themselves into a corner by their own behaviour. I believe in providing for ourselves and not burdening others. I have met many pioneers who think others in the cong owe them a living because of the sacrifices they have made to pioneer. I do not agree with that at all. It is unfair if others have to pick up the pieces for the irresponsible behaviour of those who feel they are doing God's will but expecting others to pick up the tab. So in a sense we are on the same side. I always advise people to think before they make decisions which may end up in others having to support them just because they think they have some divine commission to do something. So in some ways we are on the same side.
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John_Mann
- At that time, the direction that you receive from Jehovah’s organization may seem strange or unusual. But all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive,whether we agree with them or not, because obeying these instructions will save our lives - WT, 11/15/2013, p. 20, paragraphs 17, Stupefied version. [Emphasis added]
This cannot be true! They are writing TTATT in their own magazines!
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thedog1
Got to admit this was a really weird section of the article. I do not agree with it at all. I have a brain.
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Apognophos
Unfortunately the Bible can be cherry-picked to support almost anything. For instance, the Biblical cases where someone had to follow a course of action that they didn't understand -- Abraham (offering up Isaac), Jehoash (the arrows test), etc. etc.