this site sucks! its just a buncha athiest on soap boxes.

by crossquestions6995 167 Replies latest jw friends

  • Gopher

    Many non-believers (here and elsewhere) know as much or more about the [holy book] as believers do. It's often been said that the best way to create an atheist is to have someone read [insert name of favorite holy book].

    It's not that we "parade our ignorance about the [holy book's] historical accuracy"... we are well aware of claims made and arguments in favor of that proposition. However there are very well thought-out reasons why we reject such claims or do not understand them to lead to the conclusion that the [insert holy book name here] originated with a deity who is telling us the whole truth. There are very good arguments on the side of the proposition that holy books are the writings of ancient priests and writers who sought to propagate their particular brand of religion.

  • Giordano

    What we actually have on this forum are not necessarily the rabid Atheists but the gentle cynic who really doesn't care if god exists and certainly doesn't think the bible is the 'be all' inspired guide. Referencing scriptures to make the case for God and Jesus is simply not accepted as proof that the Christian Doctrine is provable and true. One has to go by reason and god forbid have some understanding of science/history/biology to see if a god was necessary for life to exist or if people can find their way to a moral code of conduct without a spiritual belief system.

    Now I can agree with the OP that some times our science orientated forum members can sound a bit dismissive. To put some balance on that position how would a science teacher or professor respond if the true believer sited scripture to make a scientific point? There is a reason that scientists don't consult their bibles for scientific answers. Quoting a scripture and saying "See....there's proof!" Won't get the job done. An atheist has rejected all of the other gods because all of the gods have always been silent. What those holy books provide is a bad translation of God's silence.

    On the other hand if you have read through the responses.......... there have been a number of posts talking about how helpful and often kind hearted and helpful non believers have been you need to understand what a non believer often acknowledges. A large majority of non-believers do have a world view.

    Reading this short list of what Secular humanism embraces may help broaden your perspective about how a non believer reasons.

    According to the Council for Secular Humanism, within the United States, the term "secular humanism" describes a world view with the following elements and principles: [ 7 ]

    • Need to test beliefs – A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted by faith.
    • Reason, evidence, scientific method – A commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence and scientific method of inquiry in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
    • Fulfillment, growth, creativity – A primary concern with fulfillment, growth and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
    • Search for truth – A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
    • This life – A concern for this life (as opposed to an afterlife ) and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
    • Ethics – A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
    • Justice and fairness – an interest in securing justice and fairness in society and in eliminating discrimination and intolerance. [ 17 ]
    • Building a better world – A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.
  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I proclaim my faith on this site. No one bothers me. Atheists are entitled to their point of view. I don't seek to convert others to Christianity. It is a solution for my self based on my personal circumstances.

    The born agains or the ones who hears voices that do not exist are bothered more. I find that the born agains and hears voices from whatchamacallits have a certain arrogance when dealing with others. This arrogance draws attack. I join in the attacks. Rationality should win. Civility should win.

    This is not a site to convert others the way the Witnesses converted us. Altho I identify as a believer, I frequently find more common cause with the atheists and agnostics than the silly believers.

    If you merely state what you belief, rather than imposing on others as the absolute truth, the atheist crowd should not bother you. I've been here for years now and never experienced an atheist attack.

  • GromitSK

    Good post Giordano.

  • Giordano

    Thank you GromitsSK, it turned into a more reflective thread then I thought it would.

  • Sittingstraight1212

    I think that we all have aright to believe what we want, if it makes us feel better! You're judging me, and I judge you. We believed in Jehovah, and thanks to the tower.. It's hard to believe anything anymore.. Peace out! Love life and live!😬

  • snare&racket


    Do you think all non JW's will be destroyed at Armageddon?

    Do you think many will be destroyed at Armageddon?

    Is getting drunk on occasion ok ?

    Is it ok to have a KH wedding having had any physical sexual interaction before the day?

    Should an abuse victim HAVE to meet with the elders and their abuser in the same room for any judicial action to begin?

    Do you believe in the big bang?

    Would you accept blood fractions?

    Would you donate blood?

    Do the elders have a secret book that only they can read? Why?

    Who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

    Are all the anointed likely anointed?

    Is it ok to alter the bible?

    Can you trust science?

    How old is humankind?

    Are neanderthals real?

    Did dinosaurs actually exist?

    Where in history did dinosaurs exist?

    Who wrote the bible, when and who collated the books of the bible ?

    Can you talk to disfellowshipped people? Family?

    Is the literature written via holy spirit?

    Is the NWT translated and written by spirit guidance?

    Is it ok to play the stock market?

    Do you believe in the big bang?

    Is it ok to pursue higher education and or to attend university?

    ......UNITED........ My arse!

    Probably the craziest answers I have heard from JW's is about dinosaurs. Bloody children know more than JW's! I met JW's from allover the world and I found many answers were dependant on where you asked as well as who. I found many on sustralia beleive dinosaurs are fraudulent, the bones being made and buried by demons to confuse us! One JW i was talking to about natural history stopped me in my tracks when she asked "don't laugh at me, but were dinosaurs real or are they made up?"

    Blood is a huge division in the JW's. A paper in a nursing journal noted that 20% of JW's will ask for blood on the basis it remains confidential and never mentioned again. That was an older paper too from about 2004, I am sure it is more now with the added confusion.

  • crossquestions6995

    Ya to be completly honest. After reading through itll the responses, I have no desire to debate (discuss, answer questions, dialogue, etc) on this topic. I realize that the gap between the paradigms is very vast. So it is a "circular" argument. Both parties have different sources and authorities that they trust and distrust. But I guess we all find out when we die.

    I apologize for my negative and hypocritical comments.

    This site is just not for me. You guys can have It.

    I have already healed from my 25yrs as a jw and I am more concerned with growing as a christian rather than debating in pointless arguments.

    Thanks for the responses everyone. And I hope your journey takes u where u want to be.

  • 144001

    <<<< This site is just not for me. You guys can have It.>>>>

    Thanks, crossquestions!!!! By the way, theism is just not for me. You can have it!

  • Watkins

    crossquestions6995 - I sent you a pm. :)

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