In general, the people on this forum have a poor outlook spiritually speaking.

by Stand for Pure Worship 120 Replies latest jw friends

  • erbie
    erbie

    Flesh and blood cannot inherit Gods Kingdom (Christ's words not mine).

    That is a spritual outlook.

    I'm not sure that you have really thought this through or that you understand what it means to have a spiritual 'outlook'.

    Building new assembly halls, holding huge conventions and congratulating yourselves on how well you have all achieved what you have been told that you have achieved does not, as you presume, place you on a level with Jehovah's followers of old.

    None of you really have a clear idea of what it is that the WT 'achieves' but you are told that it achieves great things so you accept that it must be so.

    I'd give it some thought if I were you.

    Unless, of course, you really do have an aversion to living in the real world.

  • John S
    John S

    erbie....

    I understand where you're coming from. Like this person who must still be a JW....I helped build many Kingdom Halls, and was the sign dept. for the quick-build committee in Mississippi. I built numerous sand-blasted wooden signs for over 10 years.

    Like this person, I felt it was quite a sacrifice of effort, time, and expense, as each sign took about 3 weeks total from start to hanging phase and framing onsite. One year I built 5...so I lost over 3 months work throughout the year. Of course at the end of my years doing this, I had to start asking for some money in recompense. This didn't sit well with some locals, and I had some heated discussions with a few immature southern prideful JW 'brothers'. I didn't feel too 'brotherly' at those times.

    It all gets down to doing these actions for God, and even though you're not appreciated, doing it anyway is a mark of patience and maturity. I failed often as a Witness in those departments as did others, too. Doesn't mean we didn't get credit in heaven, though, as Father sees all this.

    But I see your point, too. Do we really need to let a GB, elders, or anyone dictate to us what is spiritual? Sacrificial? Personal worship?

    Jesus said we should not let our left hand know what our right is doing. How does reporting time, or public 'Pioneering' with all the fanfare fulfill this requirement of modesty?

    Touche'

    This brother or sister is sincere, and mostly TRYING to please his/her Creator. Honorable.

    Yet, Apostle Paul encourages accurate knowledge along with acts of devotion/service to man and God. I believe that is even more important....KNOWING what you're doing is benficial to the Christian or humane course....not relying on heresay.

    Is it Christian? Read what Christ's instructions are; is it humane? Usually there are no laws...religious or otherwise against these gifts of mercy.

    Disaster-relief work....for instance, as we did here in the south after major hurricane destruction was praised by non-Witnesses as they saw us rebuild, and distribute food and water to all; not just Witnesses.

    But it was a shameful thing later, when JW's who had house repairs done by relief workers GOT A BILL from WT for roofing and building supplies, although all this was from donated funds!

    Check it out...I am not lying...I was involved personally in Hurricane Katrina relief work here in MS. I know what I am talking about.

    What is Christian about that, I ask? (Luke 10:4)

  • braincleaned
    braincleaned

    //But I see your point, too. Do we really need to let a GB, elders, or anyone dictate to us what is spiritual? Sacrificial? Personal worship?//

    No of course — but being organized is a good thing. Problem with the Borg, is the secrecy, the lording over, the abuse of power. Nobody even knows HOW they decide what they decide.

    Is it still a voting process? They seem to take the idea of Holy Spirit backwards: they decide stuff, then claim it comes from the HS. Never has it been explained how it works the other way around — the HS infusing them with some transcendental knowledge — in which case they would be right the first time.

    Absurdum est.

  • jhine
    jhine

    John S , welcome , nice to have another Christian on the forum . I look forward to reading your posts . You seem to be pleasant , open minded and thoughtful , a wonderful adddition to the site .

    Jan

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    It's a vastly gross overstatement, what the OP did. There are many people in this forum that, albeit dishartened with the course of events within the WTS, being either still in (my case) or out, they still have a love for spiritual things, for God and for Jesus Christ.

    Eden

  • joe134cd
    joe134cd

    Well you have certainly stoked a hornets nest here. hehe

  • John S
    John S

    Thank you for the welcome, Jan and Eden. I believe I have read comments from both of you in other places. It is good to speak up and express our reasons for being followers of Christ, and still wishing to serve our Creator, Jehovah. Even the atheists on some ex-Jw's sites are fun to reason with, if the discussion can be kept clean and not throw manners to the side.(like a shock and awe tactic)

    For instance, back in Humboldt county, CA when I was out in service in the early 70's, some of the 'Hippie' women would come to the door buck-naked to get a laugh at my reaction. Well, at 19 or 20, it was a shock, but the joke fell flat when I would just plow forward with as kind a voice I could, and they would then get behind the door and peek around it to listen. I try to go on and brush things off, but, of course in the end defeat has to be acceeded, but still, if we get some good licks in, then the counter is left with a good idea of your point.

    That brings me to the topic; Is field service the only spiritual action God accepts? One man here said it is outdated. It really seemed he was right, because for the last 20 years I was a JW...very few people 'off the street' became Witnesses though door-to-door efforts. Why , do you think?

    One main reason is simply many have made up their minds to not worship a God at all, as they are believing in Evolution, primarily I see. That is their choice, of course. We can offer reasonable proof, in a circustantial direction, say to help others see there is a God, for instance, such as bio-diversity, mathematical beauty, and order in the universe, or inborn love in humans and animals, which cannot be explained by this belief. Of course, if one does not taste the concepts, refusing to mull anything over, no matter how simple and logical they are, then a waste of time and tempers is best left alone EARLY ON.

    Secondly, here in the Bible Belt where I live, the message we as JW's preached, is easily discerned NOT to be the one Christ taught, as they are well-read on Jesus' words, all their life. Jesus didn't continually emphasize a Paradise earth. But the heavenly Kingdom Son adoption by holy spirit. So, they humored us at the doors, and politely wished us a nice day, usually. Very Christian, that. Problem was....we would KEEP coming back to their doors for years repeatedly, until their manner turned to irritation. Who was more Christian? Who was 'reasonable'? (1 Tim. 3:3)

    No wonder the JW teens hated being out in service. No joy, but incessant arguing, and to no good effect. I saw this, especially in the 80's and 90's. They tried, though, as my oldest son did, too. I finally quit making him go out, poor guy. His hands, trembling, voice cracking.....tears came to my eyes, and I had to excuse us at the last door, as it was pitiful. I love my eldest, Little John, but he does not serve God today. I think much has to do with the HUGE DEMANDS heaped upon Witness kids today. Don't you agree?

    Jesus did say, in the Good Samaritan story, that kindness and wholesome aid to people ,i.e. neighborliness, is a most beneficial way to live, and as such, is a 'spiritual ' work. His miracles of healing were definitely 'spiritual' deeds, although physical in real nature.

    But he also said going out to find the one 'lost sheep' should take a priority over staying with the 99 healthy. It takes more effort to try to save a sickened person, with spiritual or physical problems, than feed a healthy one.

    As has been pointed out on most our ex-JW sites for years, WT is way too quick to eject any who have apparent spiritual problems ; merely out of some 'inconvenience' to elders, or the self-righteous views of mainstream JW's, pummeled with the deeply-ingrained JW brainstream of 'Theocratic Policy'. (although not found in the Word, generally speaking).

    To finish this windy comment, many are now concentrating on being good Christians, and not worrying about door-to-door service. I believe this to be a great start to a happier life as a dissenting JW. Just quit going out, but try helping others who need it, and won't take advantage of you. Certainly , turning in time is not something Jehovah sees as a spiritual deed, as it is an act of eye-service to men.

    A better start to finding out what really is spiritual , for me, is going to the source , Jesus' words, and finding out just what it is he wants us to be thinking about, and believing, instead of what we all did for decades, just sit and listen to what WT writers pumped out 150 times a year at K.H. meetings. (see the post 'Meeting Misery' at christian.forumatic.com)

  • jhine
    jhine

    John , Yes .

    I am slowly learning the lesson of speaking to the person not the WAtchtower when someone is at my door from the org. When I first learnt about WT teaching and all the "problems " that exist in that teacing I did feel that it would be enough just to point out to the person on the doorstep those problems . Of course they would say "oh my life I never knew that , I must leave the Truth now . " !!

    Only that does not happen , and I must admit to upsetting a few people with my forthright opinion of their message .

    I do not believe that we must convert people who have no faith , I think that that is the work of the Holy Spirit we just let them know the Gospel message and leave them in the Lord' hand's , not push anyone to faith .

    Our Church , a little Cof E congregation has recently started a programme of door visiting , taking out some leaflets about the church and what practical help is offered by all of the local churches , food banks , counselling etc . This has been met well within the village and seems a good gentle way to show that Christians are not so bad .

    Jan

  • CADSkin
    CADSkin

    When my wife and I left we always looked back at that time and a scripture would come to mind. It’s been a while but it had something to do with a veil being over the eyes of unbelievers and the JW’s always attributed that to themselves and the things they taught. We looked back and saw how opposite that really was and that we had JW imposed horse blinders on. It’s funny now.

  • John S
    John S

    So right you both are, Jan and Cadskin.

    I would never have believed it even ten years ago, that I was in a cult-religion, because I did have a large knowledge of the scriptures, and knew my way around the Bible well. And you would think WT had it so 'together'....seeing the multitude of books they published on every Bible book, practically. But after one has read the Bible through several times, instead of a few chapters here and there, one sees the WT has very unreasonable and unimaginary conclusions....sometimes ridiculous...drawn from their reading. They don't have it together at all, really, especially on Christ's teachngs or the Revelation.

    But as Cadskin said....I had blinders on. Seeing the world through WT eyes only. Now, I can see the other churches doing door-to-door along with feeding homeless, and relief work in Central American missions and more generosity is needed than preaching at people. Yes, I see this, too, NOW. And I can say I have my own and honesy opinion of churche in America, anyway, as I attended many over a three-year period after leaving WT.

    After I started re-examining the Bible, I had a life-changing experience of being born of the spirit, (my experiences are explained on christian.forumatic.com). This is too public for that. That occurred just over 7 years ago, I believe. Time gets away from me.

    I had to start over...re-reading the New Testament first, especially Book of John..and Genesis. Some of my newest thoughts on Genesis 3 you may find at least entertaining on 'cfc', under the Bible Discussion forum; "Deductions from Genesis; The Two Trees"

    I actually become super-interested in the scriptures after the experience, and now, I learn from others, too, as people are all over the net researching and re-learning. Especially many ex-JW's . There is a new wave coming out of that religion. It is history in the making right now...very exciting.

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