Zimmerman Not guilty

by mouthy 480 Replies latest social current

• 

  Simon

  but this does highlight the ambiguous nature of this SYG law.

  It is poorly conceived because it makes deciding what is and isn't self defense pretty difficult and potentially encourages people using force when they do not need to.

  With GZ / TM it's actually hard to come up with a much better example of legitimate self-defense - you are on the ground being pummelled by a sustained attack. It's really a no brainer - it's clearly self-defense.

  Change the scenario to merely being threatened and having the means to escape but chosing not to ... much harder to decipher what is happening and what reasonable force is and where the fault lies. What if TM had merely threatened GZ and GZ was at his car and could just get in and drive off but decides instead he can "stand his ground" ...

  The Alexander case was obviously neither though as she chose to return with a drawn gun - that changes everything and makes her an aggressor and firing it makes it a 20 year sentence.
• 

  worf

  Mary, You made GREAT COMPARISON by posting the story of the lady convicted for defending herself against her husband. THANK YOU SO MUCH! Worf
• 

  worf

  Metatron, Thank you for the point you made about cases like this being used and adjudicated in a way that will cause the most distraction for people. That is such an excellent point! My wife and I were just talking about this today. The parasites who direct things will sacrifice justice, even when it involves the murder of an innocent person, in order to get the general population fired up and distracted. And that is the deeper travesty about this and similar situations. And they use situations of obvious racism like this unjust murder of Mr. Trayvon Martin to pervert justice and it is obvious that this happened disproportionately to African Americans. But people like Simon are just not integrated enough to see "what is" Worf
• 

  Finkelstein

  With GZ / TM it's actually hard to come up with a much better example of legitimate self-defense - you are on the ground being pummelled by a sustained attack. It's really a no brainer - it's clearly self-defense.

  I think you'd have hard time for a lot of people to agree with that Simon.

  Particularly since TM didn't have a weapon of his own.

  Would a police officer have the legal right to shoot at citizen if they took a punch at a cop ?

  GZ was an adult, TM was a teenager and perhaps acted as a teenager might have.

  TM was probably acting as a tuff guy with a don't mess with me attitude with his black hoody and all but

  he was still just a frighten teenager.

  You have to look at the situation with a wide open perspective.

  GZ clearly goofed up, so he should have been charged with manslaughter.
• 

  Finkelstein

  Just some information about voluntary manslaughter.

  Voluntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being in which the offender had no prior intent to kill and acted during "the heat of passion," under circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed. In the Uniform Crime Reports prepared by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, it is referred to as non negligent manslaughter. Voluntary manslaughter is one of two main types of manslaughter, the other being involuntary manslaughter.

  Provocation

  Provocation consists of the reasons for which one person kills another. "Adequate" or "reasonable" provocation is what makes the difference between voluntary manslaughter and murder. According to the book Criminal Law Today, “provocation is said to be adequate if it would cause a reasonable person to lose self-control”. For example, if a man were to come home and find his wife in bed with another person and kill both of them in a jealous rage, this might be considered adequate provocation and thus voluntary manslaughter.

  State of mind

  Imperfect self-defense

  In some jurisdictions, malice can also be negated by imperfect self-defense. Self-defense is considered imperfect when the killer acted from his belief in the necessity for self-defense, but that belief was not reasonable under the circumstances. If the belief in self-defense were reasonable, then the killing would be considered justified and not unlawful. Where the belief is unreasonable, the homicide is considered to be voluntary manslaughter.

  An example is if a person kills a passer-by he mistakes for a threatening mugger.

  Intent to kill

  Intent to kill is normally present during a voluntary manslaughter case, but is not required. Since most heat of passion and imperfect self-defense killings involve intent to kill, typically voluntary manslaughter involve intentional killings. However, there are occasions when intent to kill is not present, although malice is, for example, when a person responds to oral provocation by engaging in physical altercation. The provocation is sufficient so that his response is justified. Should the response result in the death of the provoker, the crime is either voluntary manslaughter or second degree murder, depending on the jurisdiction.
• 

  Simon

  The assailant doesn't need a weapon for it to be self defense. In fact if the assailant has a weapon of any substance we're likely going to be talking about a victim instead oif a defendant.

  Do you think any wife taking a beating from an abusive spouse doesn't have the right to fight back with anything she can ... as long as he only uses his fists?
• 

  talesin

  Though the law did 'technically' protect GZ ... I believe that he provoked the situation.

  TM was walkiing down the sidewalk, wearing a hoodie on a rainy night, minding his own business .... a skinny teen, minding his own business, and GZ profiled him, then (in my opinion), acted in a vigilante fashion. If I were TM, I would have been terrified.

  17, Black, and living in Florida? Being followed by a grown, stocky man who gets out of his car? Why isn't the man 'afraid' of this suspicious, young, black thug? He MUST be packing.

  Yeah, I can put myself in Trayvon's shoes, and he may very well have feared for his life. I've been to Florida more than once, have visited people I thought were my friends in Decatur, GA. After that visit, though, I had nothing more to do with them - their talk of how the 'n' s were different and had their 'own section of town' disgusted me. Virulent hatred and racism against people of colour is alive and well.

  But, my speculation of what TM may have been feeling, is just that. Speculation. What is not speculation is that GZ profiled him, was extremely foolish in his actions, and provoked a situation that ended when he shot an unarmed kid.

  Oh, and TM was not 'on drugs' according to the autopsy, right? He had trace amounts indicating marijuana use - maryjane stays in your system for at least a month, which is why anyone who gets randomly drug-tested at work NEVER tokes - it lingers in the blood system too long. So, maybe he smoked a joint a day, a week, or a month ago. Let's not mischaracterize the victim, kay?

  t
• 

  Berengaria

  I find it absolutely amazing that the bulk of "evidence" is from the defendants own mouth, and yet it is being accepted as fact.

  Why didn't TM have scratches or DNA on his hands if he was involved in such a "beat down" as one poster put it? How can it be considered self defense when the injuries were so minor as to not even need medical attention until the next day, belying the notion that he felt his very lfe was threatened? Why did the screams for help end at the exact moment of the gunshot? If Zimmerman was on the ground when he shot Martin who was allegedly on top beating his head in, why wasn't Martin's blood all over the front of Zimmerman?

  Again, this sets a horrible precedent. I can assume you look suspicious, follow you for no reason other than my own delusions, yet if you feel threatened and confront me, I can shoot you dead and walk away free.

  It's no wonder the Prosecution in their closing arguments begged the jury to use their common sense.
• 

  sooner7nc

  If you were screaming because you were getting beat up and then the beating stopped you might stop screaming.

  The ME said that most of the blood was in the chest cavity. I saw a pic of the chest wound and it looked closed to me.

  I don't know about the lack of scratches on TM's hands.
• 

  Botzwana

  Zimmerman got justice. Martin was a punk kid. Pics to prove it. He had a history of violence.