There is no such thing as a spirit world. There are natural and psychological explanations for all such anecdotes. Our minds are capable of deceiving us in powerful ways.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.
Who has experienced a REAL demonic incident?
by Monsieur 418 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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sir82
I'm not prepared to say "there is no such thing as a spirit world".
The most rational, logical intelligent person in the 17th century would have been absolutely as sure, and as absolutely agreed with, if he had said "there is no such thing as electromagnetism".
I'm much more comfortable with "there is no evidence of a spirit world".
The admittedly irrational part of me adds "yet" to that sentence.
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TD
I don't believe in the supernatural, but have seen some really strange things a couple of times.
Many years ago, when I was a teenager and studying with JW's I was door to door with one of the "Servants" (Before elders.)
We were in very poor rural area. We walked up to a rickety old house with a big wooden porch and a nice, somewhat overweight lady answered the door.
He started into his spiel. There was a loud bang from somewhere inside the house. The whole house shook, the windows rattled and the porch we were standing on swayed. The lady went weak in the knees and clutched at the door jamb for a few seconds to keep from collapsing. She said something softly, but I didn't catch it.
This happened again and again and the second or third time, I understood her. She was saying, "Thank you, Lord."
You can make of the story what you will. I'm not saying it was supernatural. --Just weird
I guess you can imagine how the JW explained it
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cofty
Sir82 - But it would have been very easy to demonstrate electromagnetism to a 17th century skeptic. We would not have had to ask anybody to trust us and we would not have got offended if people didn't believe in our personal testimony of the reality of electromagnetism.
There is zero objective evidence of any sort of "supernatural" phenomena. With the rise of the scientific method and recording equipment evidence of the supernatural should be increasing beyond reasonable doubt. The opposite is happening. The time has long since passed when rational peopel should have the courage to declare it is non-existent.
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Glander
It was a cold windy night in late December of 1975 . Bro. K and I had scheduled a shepherding call with Sister J. for that evening at seven. This was a true shepherding call in that it was to check on the welfare of a very elderly sister who had become unable to get to meetings. It had been brought to our attention by a sister in the congregation that no one had heard from her in over a week. She lived in a somewhat remote, rural area.
We drove into her driveway and could not detect any lights on in the house. I beeped the horn a couple of times and then we found our way to the front door of her delapidated old farmhouse. We knocked and a moment later there came a yellow candle light behind the curtain. The door was opened and there stood a very tiny old woman holding a candle up high. She said hello in a frail whisper. We reminded her of who we were and she invited us in. The house was cold and there was no fire going in the wood stove. She gestured toward an old, brocade sofa and we sat. She took her place in a tiny rocking chair after placing the candle on a shelf next to her old bookcase. Due to the shadowed light we could not see her books but assumed it was the usual collection of old Watchtower publications as Sister J had been associated with the local congregation for as long as anyone could remember. She had remained single and pioneered for many years until she could no longer go door to door
She had hot tea prepared which was a surprise. She must have had some means of boiling water in the kitchen of the old place. The tea was welcome in the cold parlor.
We discussed how close we were to the new order. She seemed very content and at peace. She said something about expecting the end in the fall of the year and we reminded her that "no man knew the day or the hour" and that Brother Franz had explained the fact that no one knew the period of time that passed between the creation of Adam and the creation of Eve. This seemed to be of great interest to her and we explained to her how this could leave the actual end of the 7000 years somewhat vague.
We asked if she was in need of anything and told her we missed her at the Kingdom Hall. She said she was fine and thanked us for coming. She declined the offer of someone coming to pick her up for the special talk to be delivered two days later on Sunday.
We found our way to the car and when we looked back the house was completely dark.
That Sunday I told the concerned sister that we had paid a visit to Sister J and she seemed to be getting along OK.
She looked at me and her face went white. "When were you there?...she hung herself last Wednesday!"
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slimboyfat
How can one distinguish a real experience from an unreal one?
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sir82
But it would have been very easy to demonstrate electromagnetism to a 17th century skeptic.
Who would be doing the demonstration? A 21st century time traveler?
No one in the 17th century could even frame the issue correctly, to understand how little they didn't know.
With the rise of the scientific method and recording equipment evidence of the supernatural should be increasing beyond reasonable doubt.
I don't exactly disagree with you.
I'm just saying, proclaiming that we have reached the near-pinnacle of our ability to observe and record the world around us is almost certainly premature and, to me anyway, a bit arrogant.
19th century scientists were absolutely certain they'd have the world figured out within a few decades. Their certainty is laughable now.
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slimboyfat
You are right sir82, scientismists foolhardily assume they have got final answers to questions, despite the heavy weight of history that shows no answer is ever final.
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HBH
I used to fool with what could be called "spiritism". I did feel something. Sympoms included pain in my lower back, and rapid heart rate. I don't remember exactly what caused me to stop, but I do recall I got scared, and I knew I didn't want to "open that door" anymore.
I wouldn' call it a "demonic incident", but it was strange.
If you google Nina Kulagina, I believe she was for real.
HBH
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James Brown
My brother tells me he has dealt with demons numerous times.
He says they hold him down and don't let him move.
He says he talks to them and they end up leaving him alone.
He ask them what are you trying to prove. I know you are real.
My brother is 59 and has told me he has dealt with demons/ spirits since he was in his 30's
through to the present day.
He has not been a witness for 30 years but he does do things the witnesses would look down on
such as leaving his body and having out of body experiences and visiting the dead on the other side.
My brother sets up tape recorders and records white noise and finds voices on the tapes, voices that say
things you would think demons would say, like "there's going to be a murder". He takes pictures of people and
finds orbs on them. He blows the orbs up and finds pictures or drawings in them. I have seen them.
My brother would say there is something there. Something in another dimension.
I spent a career dealing with wackos in the jail, my brother does not strike me as a wacko or schizophrenic.
He strikes me as being well read and informed about various possibilities.
My brother has always worked and had a somewhat responsible job and never been treated for
any mental conditions.
I would describe my brother as a psychic explorer, a pschic adventurer.